I'm beginning to lose faith in humanity...

[floridaorange]

Re: I'm beginning to lose faith in humanity...

[Not to blame mothers for anything, but...] I read it takes one simple aspect of motherhood to create a sociopath person.....if their mother never threatened to withdraw her love in anger. It's that simple. If you never fear losing that one important person's love, that can change everything for you. It's actually healthy for a mother to show the emotion of anger and withdraw her attention for awhile. Through feeling that fear, you learn empathy for anyone seemingly unloved.

Can you elaborate, give examples? This is interesting, thanks.

[feather]

Re: I'm beginning to lose faith in humanity...

I think there is always an argument that there is good and there are good people out there, but seriously, the signal to noise ratio?

I am all for wiping out the human race or eugenics. "Free will, reason, intelligence" has fucked us all up. You don't see animals willfully doing this to each other.

We are a small, petty, pathetic race.

[KiwiTollway]

Re: I'm beginning to lose faith in humanity...

Can you elaborate, give examples? This is interesting, thanks.

The way I understood it, sometimes people are a certain way, like they seem to lack remorse for things they say/do that hurts others. So they hurt others indiscriminately and they don't know why. Apparently, if their mother was so even-keeled in temperament, like she acted as if nothing really got to her, she showed the same tone, same look, no anger, no affect...nothing made her really angry, then the child learns very early he/she cannot affect her [or others]. Because if the child never feels that feeling of panic/fear & internalizes it by asking himself "Is she still going to love me?" and he/she doesn't ever become scared (experience that fear for a moment) and come to the conclusion "I better behave nicer." then that creates a lack of conscience in a sense and it can play out in various ways. I think because they're missing that link "bad behavior = the chance I'll lose the love of the one most important person to me [mother]."

I read it's important for mothers to show emotions, communicate what they mean & how to resolve them ("Say you're sorry and come give me a hug, see I'm not angry anymore, we're fine.") By withdrawing their attention from their child for a period of time (like in timeout... gentle discipline) no matter how much the young child wants to connect, she's angry and says "I'm angry you for ______ (not yelling, but raising voice slightly, changing tone to an angry one, changing facial expression, & so on) "Go sit in timeout." (or go to your room until you can communicate calmly, then you can come out and we'll work through this together.) The young child fears for a few moments that mother doesn't love him/her anymore because of whatever they did that was wrong. So then, the mother relaxes, stops being angry (i.e., emotions have been processed), and makes up with the child (with warm communication). It's an important process in child rearing if you want an adult who has a conscience, is confident in reading people's emotions, and can interpret their own emotions and how to work through them warmly with others.

A very young child (0-5) must learn that his/her actions affect people emotionally (through experiencing that with their parents) and those emotions can get worked through and they feel loved (in warm connection) again. Adversely, if their mother's love was never 'hanging in the balance,' the child feels kind of robotic, like they don't really matter in the emotional life of their mother, thus, they don't really matter to anyone. That link doesn't get internalized. Or, there is so much confusion around their own emotions and the lack of emotions being displayed by their mother, their conscience lacks developing in experiencing empathy for themselves or anyone else.

When that happens, that adult tends to escalate negative behavior towards others because they believe deep inside they don't affect anyone emotionally (their even-keeled mother never/rarely was affected by them). For some people, that can even turn into physical negative behavior, which would be that of a sociopath or one with sociopath tendencies. It's all really important in a child's emotional development.

There's an article (I read these kinds of things all the time) called "Parent-child Processes in Childhood, Conduct Problems, & Callous-Unemotional Traits: An Observational Analysis" by Dave S Pasalich, University of New South Wales, Sydney Australia. But you can also google how consciences are developed in early childhood, it's all about parenting styles. It's actually more effective to have parents who display a wide range of emotions, label them for their child, talk about resolving them openly & warmly, verses strict, cold, authoritative, non-discussion-types or coercive forms of interacting and discipline. And fear plays a very important role in attachment, conscience development, empathy development for others, etc.

here's another article:

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/labs/thompson/pubs/article/thompsonmeyermcginley.pdf

some excerpts:

It should be clear from this research review how parents whose conversations with offspring incorporate negative, denigrating, or otherwise unsympathetic portrayals of others’ needs or motives, or who emphasize the importance of moral compliance for authoritarian reasons, or who scare or threaten offspring, or who convey self interested moral orientations, or who seek to justify lying, cheating, or treating others unkindly are likely to instill similar values and dispositions in young children. Moreover, in parent–child relationships of distrust or insecurity, young children are likely to be inclined toward moral dispositions that are more self-protective and perhaps less other-oriented than those inspired by caregiving relationships of security and warmth. These negative or mixed moral messages are likely to be apparent in parent–child relationships characterized also by harsh or punitive parental discipline practices and may, in fact, help to account for the more external, punishment-oriented moral values adopted by the offspring of such parents.



Young children learn about the importance of others’ feelings in their conversations with the adult, and they also witness these emotions directly during conflict with siblings or parents, and then talk about the feelings they observed in later conversation. Children learn to care about how others feel because their own feelings are respected, even during conflict with a parent.



Perhaps most valuable is the view emerging from this research that young children are intuitive moralists who begin to understand values in the context of relationships of

significance to them. Young children are neither autonomous moral theorists nor lumps of clay to be shaped by others. They are instead moral apprentices, striving hard to understand, creating their own intuitive morality but also aided by the sensitive guidance of adult mentors in the home who provide lessons about morality in everyday experiences. Such a portrayal of young children enlivens inquiry into the beginnings of conscience.



I hope this helps..

[floridaorange]

Re: I'm beginning to lose faith in humanity...

thanks so much - going to read this a few times... It's good for understanding people who we may know

[KiwiTollway]

Re: I'm beginning to lose faith in humanity...

I think there is always an argument that there is good and there are good people out there, but seriously, the signal to noise ratio?

I really enjoy the unique, funny way you put things, Feather .


I agree FL, it is interesting to know why people do what they do. Parents, in all their good intentions, sometimes decide to hide all negative feelings/emotions believing they're being better parents for it -----like believing in always redirecting rather than expressing displeasure with their child's behavior. But they're actually doing a dis-service to the child because the real world is full of other people and their emotions. To fear hurting someone's feelings is a valuable learned trait if you don't want to raise a sociopath or narcissist.

[feather]

Re: I'm beginning to lose faith in humanity...

Glad my misanthropy is entertaining I suppose ...

Funnily enough after participating in this thread I caught Planet of the Apes last night.

Apes don't kill apes.

[KiwiTollway]

Re: I'm beginning to lose faith in humanity...

2014-Refugee.jpg
Alejandro, 8 yrs old, a refugee found at our border with nothing but his birth certificate. OMG, his little face... he traveled so far to get to safety.

[audrey_w]

Re: I'm beginning to lose faith in humanity...

.. he traveled so far to get to safety.

From where? How far?

[KiwiTollway]

Re: I'm beginning to lose faith in humanity...

From where? How far?

The children are coming out of Honduras, El Salvador, and Guatemala and have traveled more than 2,000 miles (3,219 km), including all through Mexico, to get to the closest U.S. border in Texas.

[barski]

Re: I'm beginning to lose faith in humanity...

They must have seen the succes story of the Dog Whisperer.

[DIDI]

Re: I'm beginning to lose faith in humanity...

[QUOTE=KiwiTollway;Alejandro, 8 yrs old, a refugee found at our border with nothing but his birth certificate. OMG, his little face... he traveled so far to get to safety. QUOTE]


Alejandro, the Drama of Immigrant Children in the U.S

He does look amazing well clothed and fed though.

[Illuminate]

Re: I'm beginning to lose faith in humanity...

[QUOTE=DIDI;1133318]

Alejandro, the Drama of Immigrant Children in the U.S

He does look amazing well clothed and fed though.

That's a pretty small photo. I couldn't say if he's really fed, but none the less, the reports seem to be credible, especially this one: http://www.uchastings.edu/centers/cg...ind_report.pdf

If only people knew of how miserable our so called government, treats refugees. Abysmal, is an understatement.

[feather]

Re: I'm beginning to lose faith in humanity...

I read recently about some refugees in Australia threatening suicide and the prime minister declaring the government won't be blackmailed, didn't delve further into it.

[KiwiTollway]

Re: I'm beginning to lose faith in humanity...

Until the world stops using children as pawns for their own selfish various needs & whatever is lacking, they'll keep being used & abused and that sucks.

Alejandro has captured my heart, I would give him my home and love in a split second for the rest of my life. His little face, there's just something about his expression while the officer looks over his birth certificate that I will never forget. He's dressed like a little grown man. He came so far and he's only 8 yrs old. The power of photography! That one got to me. I seriously contacted the border's DHS to see what we could do because of that photo.

Everyone needs compassion at times in their life, the Australia's prime minister will have his day, how cold hearted to spin it into being blackmail instead of the desperation it is. I've experienced people like that, no thank you. Aren't we all refugees in a sense at some point in our lives? Everyone needs refuge.

[barski]

Re: I'm beginning to lose faith in humanity...

KiwiTollway, you're too good for this world.
Most likely the kid was helped, and probably dropped 10 km from there...