4000 Dead -- 4 more years?

[CactusBeats]

Re: 4000 Dead -- 4 more years?

Voting for nader is the same as not voting.

I agree with you there. I only used his comment for emphasizing my point about the Supreme Court, not for endorsing him as a candidate. My point is to warn AGAINST voting for third party or sitting this one out because of the Supreme Court issue.

[Jenks]

Re: 4000 Dead -- 4 more years?

I will not vote for the lesser of two evils ever again. Not voting IS making a choice.

[CactusBeats]

Re: 4000 Dead -- 4 more years?

I will not vote for the lesser of two evils ever again. Not voting IS making a choice.

Sure is. Its making the choice that it doesn't much matter which direction our Supreme Court moves in or what kind of decisions they make.

You have removed all your options. Even if you ignore my advice about the Supreme Court, you have said that "Voting for nader is the same as not voting." So assuming your Nader statement can be extended to any third party candidate, the only circumstances you could possibly vote in are where your IDEAL candidate is in either the Democratic or Republican party. If you keep those conditions - you will NEVER vote for President in this country. That's fine by me, because the fewer people that vote, the more important and influential my vote or ANYONE's vote becomes. You have made yourself IRRELEVANT.

[Jenks]

Re: 4000 Dead -- 4 more years?

Oh i'm IRRELEVANT. Whoop de do. And you're relevant?

You've missed the point, and I'd go into detail and argue with you on this, but i don't give enough of a shit to do so at this time.

[dig72]

Re: 4000 Dead -- 4 more years?

Anyways, I'm curious to what some of the soldiers on the ground think about this. About that thier original mission was simply a fabrication. Particularly those that were induced to join because they thought they were going to find WMD's...

edit: just read that 95%+ of the soldiers that have been killed happened after the notorious "Mission Accomplished" press conference...

Follow link below and read about the Winter Soldier Hearings.

Watch the preview about Winter Soldier and get an insight into the senseless destruction that is being caused by American troops and their leaders.

http://www.ivaw.org/wintersoldier


Not really suprised that the Winter Soldier Hearings got fark all media coverage.

I don't think the US big media and government really want the American citizens to hear or read on what is really happening in Iraq and Afghanistan. And that is US troops are just basically blowing shit up and murdering men, women and children.

[CactusBeats]

Re: 4000 Dead -- 4 more years?

Not really suprised that the Winter Soldier Hearings got fark all media coverage.

I don't think the US big media and government really want the American citizens to hear or read on what is really happening in Iraq and Afghanistan. And that is US troops are just basically blowing shit up and murdering men, women and children.

I actually did hear about WInter Soldier, but that's only because I listen to public radio. Commercial outlets aren't interested in this.

And that is US troops are just basically blowing shit up and murdering men, women and children.

I wish this weren't true, but from what I saw on the news today is Basra, it didn't look good. "Collateral damage" now is unacceptable. The US needs to leave and let the Iraqi's take charge of their country. They should have the right to self-determine. It is their country. Right now so-called "Iraqi gov't" only exists in the green zone. Any gov't that needs an occupying power to prop it up the way we are now, probably isn't viewed as legit by Iraqis anyway.

JenksRe: 4000 Dead -- 4 more years?
Oh i'm IRRELEVANT. Whoop de do. And you're relevant?

You've missed the point, and I'd go into detail and argue with you on this, but i don't give enough of a shit to do so at this time.
And Jenks, man, I apologize for being so freeking rude. I didn't mean it personally. It irks me sometimes when I see people get so cynical and jaded about the political system because the only real way to change anything is from the inside. Its not that I don't understand why someone would be fed up with the candidates. My perspective is that voting at least gives me the right to complain (even though anyone has that right). Just that I do what little I can. It all boils down to this. For me its just easier to live with a positive attitude than negative one. Matter of choice.

[Jenks]

Re: 4000 Dead -- 4 more years?

Being alive gives you the right to complain, not voting.

[thesightless]

Re: 4000 Dead -- 4 more years?

enough is enough.

it is fucking war. people die, be glad it isnt 60 years ago before the real war rules were implemented, because we could have won this war in 2 months if we really wanted to, but the civilian death toll would be a lot higher.

show me a war won without death. please. there isnt even a prize, i just wanna know. board games and video games dont count.

fuck, stop being pussies, write your congressman and let more bombs be dropped and lets just kill em all and implement a new government later. sounds stupid, but another year of all this STUPID FUCKING DEBATE on iraq will lead me to smuggle a nuke right into mecca and start WW3, if only to accelerate the end results.

GOD PLEASE TELL ME WHY WE DONT JUST STEAL THE FUCKING OIL.

[88Mariner]

Re: 4000 Dead -- 4 more years?

^ sure. nobody is disagreeing with you Sightless. War is hell. people do die. there are casualties on all sides.

but you operate from an erroneous premise: that this war was necessary. Because, in truth, it wasn't. All of the foundations we based this war on have been shown to be fabriated, misinterpreted, speculated, or plainly non-existent.

Some wars are necessary. nobody disagrees with that. but this wasn't one of them. And the death toll should be ZERO.

your suggestion to drop nukes amounts to having beat up a woman and deciding that, since you can't un-beat her, you might as well kill her.

[thesightless]

Re: 4000 Dead -- 4 more years?

^ sure. nobody is disagreeing with you Sightless. War is hell. people do die. there are casualties on all sides.

but you operate from an erroneous premise: that this war was necessary. Because, in truth, it wasn't. All of the foundations we based this war on have been shown to be fabriated, misinterpreted, speculated, or plainly non-existent.

Some wars are necessary. nobody disagrees with that. but this wasn't one of them. And the death toll should be ZERO.

your suggestion to drop nukes amounts to having beat up a woman and deciding that, since you can't un-beat her, you might as well kill her.

sadly, this is war was inevitable, and neccessary, maybe not now, but later, absolutly. oil is basically the third most required resource beyond air and water. without oil, or even with oil at stupid high prices, economy and society would shut down. they were being proactive, stupid, but proactive. it would happened sooner or later. im not some anarchist beggin for chaos, quite opposite, but the means to the end are required.

[dig72]

Re: 4000 Dead -- 4 more years?

[quote=thesightless;582747]

it is fucking war. people die, be glad it isnt 60 years ago before the real war rules were implemented, because we could have won this war in 2 months if we really wanted to, but the civilian death toll would be a lot higher.

It's not a war. It's an illegal invasion and occupation of a nation that never threatened the US or it's allies.

fuck, stop being pussies, write your congressman and let more bombs be dropped and lets just kill em all and implement a new government later.

Ah yes, the biggest pussies of them all. The type that sit in the comforts of their homes, behind a computer screen yelling for death and destruction of fellow human beings but don't have the ballz to do it themselves.

GOD PLEASE TELL ME WHY WE DONT JUST STEAL THE FUCKING OIL.

Because stealing is not only morally wrong but it is also very illegal.


Wtf are Americans teaching their kids?

[dig72]

Re: 4000 Dead -- 4 more years?

[quote=CactusBeats;582721]

The US needs to leave and let the Iraqi's take charge of their country. They should have the right to self-determine. It is their country. Right now so-called "Iraqi gov't" only exists in the green zone. Any gov't that needs an occupying power to prop it up the way we are now, probably isn't viewed as legit by Iraqis anyway.

Agreed.

[DIDI]

Re: 4000 Dead -- 4 more years?

sadly, this is war was inevitable, and neccessary, maybe not now, but later, absolutly. oil is basically the third most required resource beyond air and water. without oil, or even with oil at stupid high prices, economy and society would shut down. they were being proactive, stupid, but proactive. it would happened sooner or later. im not some anarchist beggin for chaos, quite opposite, but the means to the end are required.

So you are saying it had to be done so Americans could have oil???????? Just maybe if they stopped driving around in their obscenely oil guzzling vehicles and put more effort into renewables they wouldn't have "had" to!!

They have bombed the fuck out of one of the oldest and most significant places in the world, and been responsible for hundreds of thousands of innocent lives for oil!!!!!

[dig72]

Re: 4000 Dead -- 4 more years?

sadly, this is war was inevitable, and neccessary, maybe not now, but later, absolutly. oil is basically the third most required resource beyond air and water. without oil, or even with oil at stupid high prices, economy and society would shut down. they were being proactive, stupid, but proactive. it would happened sooner or later. im not some anarchist beggin for chaos, quite opposite, but the means to the end are required.

Seriously dude, if you really want the oil, how about just paying for it like every other decent human being.

It's that simple.

[88Mariner]

Re: 4000 Dead -- 4 more years?

you make it seem like Bush and the American government is truly altruistic to the needs of the American people.

are you out of your mind?

whatever they went into Iraq for it surely wasn't about oil. perhaps if you look at the doctrines that supported thier initiative to wage war, you'll find the answer.

unfortunately, all of bush's advisors were terribly wrong about what they anticipated to happen in iraq.

if it was about the oil, we would have waged a completely different war.