When Ableton isn't live...

[WilDFire]

So I saw Gabriel and Dresden at Spundae in LA on Saturday night. Apple laptop set up - Dave the Wave had headphones on and was bouncing around, Gabriel was working the laptop. The tunes were pretty good, the crowd was dancing...

Then I went upstairs.

I looked down and as you can see into the booth, I saw that Gabriel was just looking at his computer, and there was only one track open on the mixer. No cds, no vinyl, at all thoughout their set. I watched for about 30 minutes and not once was any attempt made to "add loops or fx on the fly". Dave would occasionally put the headphones on, dance around, and tweak the eq and the filters on the Xone. That's it. And there was no reason for him to wear the headphones, because there was never a mix. It was all for show.

I'm sorry folks, but that kinda pisses me off. Getting paid to play one track? Granted that a lot of it was their music, and they spent some time putting together their set - but there was absolutely no "live" element.

Underworld and others use prerecorded stuff too, but they sing, jam, and add loops etc. There was none of that.

At least Sasha actually has a mixer and can add loops etc. I haven't heard Zabiela's set yet, but I'm sure it was different.

I ask: if you're not playing off the crowd, is it djing?

To me this experience epitomizes the worst that can happen with Ableton - I'm sure Sasha's way on the other side of the spectrum, doing the best.

Thoughts?

[lemon]

Of course its not DJing. Grabiel and Dresden have good tracks i'm amazed they would do such a thing. There's a million excuses but none are justifyable enough for them to do that. When you mix in Ableton you get separate "lines" in the arrangement view. So if you say they only had one track then yeah, they werent mixing. They were just playing something pre recorded.

[Kinetic]

That?s really fucking weak...

I?m hugely in favour of DJ?s using Live, and I?ve supported and used the program since v2, so when I hear reports like this, I get really pissed, because this is exactly HOW YOU SHOULD NOT use technology for DJ?ing.

I mean, why use it at all if you?re going to use it like this? I wonder if using Live is now becoming "fashionable" amongst DJ?s, so these guys felt it would be cool to do show up with a laptop and Ableton Live?

And let?s not even get into how disrespectful this is to the crowd who pays to see this...

[WilDFire]

You've hit it spot on, Kinetic. I think it is hugely disrespectful to the crowd. They might as well have been playing to a wall...their set would've sounded the same.

[sheryar]

i wonder if the mix was good though... it doesn't matter if the sound coming out of the speakers makes you lose your shit that the jokers in the booth are just putting on a show.

but if the sound was weak then that REALLY sucks.

[thesightless]

Re: When Ableton isn't live...

that is shady. clubs dont pay you to appear, they pay you to DJ. its like hanging the old GU posters in the booth at twilo and playing digweed-hong kong.

"2 turntables and a microphone."

[th33f]

might as well render the whole thing on a CD, stick it in and go dance WITH the crowd... maybe those guys weren't really that experienced with Live so they didn't want to screw up their automations or whatever by adding stuff in real time. in any case, if i ever saw a DJ do the pre-rerecorded thing like this at a show i'd lose all respect for him, no matter how much i like the music. it would be Ableton Dead for that dude...

[Weizy]

Re: When Ableton isn't live...

when g & d was here last summer, dave the wave played all vinyl and mixed every record manually...

josh gabriel played off his laptop, never touched a turntable, and sounded robotically flawless

i am so fucking sick of all this ableton bullshit

so innovative, oh so creative, give me a fucking break

my friend Danny is an ableton master, does that mean we should worship him too?????

[thesightless]

. in any case, if i ever saw a DJ do the pre-rerecorded thing like this at a show i'd lose all respect for him, no matter how much i like the music. it would be Ableton Dead for that dude...

dont ever go to JXL.

[fishingnut]

Re: When Ableton isn't live...

that is shady. clubs dont pay you to appear, they pay you to DJ. its like hanging the old GU posters in the booth at twilo and playing digweed-hong kong.

"2 turntables and a microphone."

junior vasques has been guilty of this many of times..

[thesightless]

i hate junior. never liked his music. the only song he ever played that put a smile on my face, was the remix of dolly parton's cover of peace train. i heard it after about 8 pills at sunrise after a rave a few years back, and i was sitting on a hill just outside UMASS watchign the sun peek through the mountainside and through some clouds.

[skahound]

Grabiel and Dresden have good tracks

C'mon everybody, sing along...

"There's a coldness in the air
but i don't care....
(Embrace me...surround me)

Travelling somewhere
could be anywhere
there's a coldness in the air
but i don't care
we drift deeper
life goes on
we drift deeper
into the sound

(Embrace me...surround me.. as the rush..)

Travelling somewhere
could be anywhere
there's a coldness in the air
yeah but i don't care
we drift deeper into the song
life goes on
we drift deeper into the sound
feeling strong

so bring it on so bring it onnnn
we drift deeper into the song
life goes on
we drift deeper into the sound
feeling strong
so bring it on so bring it onnnn
we drift deeper........

we drift deeper life goes on
we drift deeper drift deeper
we drift deeper into the song
life goes on
we drift deeper into the sound
feeling strong
so bring it on so bring it onnnn
we drift deeper into the song
life goes on
we drift deeper into the sound
feeling strong
so bring it on so bring it onnnn

embrace me .. surround me
as the rush comes [ x 8 ]

as the rush comes
as the rush comes
as the rush comes..."

[sammwalk]

I suppose a live musician could say the same thing to a DJ: You're playing pre-recorded music and calling it "live".

If it's truly "all about the music", then the sky's the limit with technology. Vinyl, CD, PCM from a laptop- it's all sound, so whatever sounds the best and the most musical IS the best. Just because something is easy doesn't make it bad- what makes it bad is always poor taste, which, of course, will never be eliminated.

I hate it when people complain about DJs not using vinyl. If it could come straight out of someone's head and into the speakers, it would, but it doesn't, so we have to use media. Now media is changing; learn to use it, not fear it.

THAT SAID...

Going to a gig and playing a laid out set is not DJing; it's just playing music out of speakers. And it's a shame that professionals will do this. However, this is not any different whether you play vinyl, CDs, or straight from a computer. The only thing different about a computer is that beatmatching becomes perfect, and certainly no one who is concerned about "the music" will doubt that this is a step forward. I hate hearing trainwrecks, don't you?

Blame the user, not the tech!

[lopark]

Re: When Ableton isn't live...

i am so fucking sick of all this ableton bullshit

so innovative, oh so creative, give me a fucking break

If you're unhappy with the house, blame the carpenter, not the tools.

[ddr]

yea about gabriel and dresden.

like 2 or 3 years ago ro something i remember dave dresden was at dna lounge for an hour or maybe alittle bit more than an hour. but some ppl on here know that they have videos of their acts all the time, they let you see right into the booth/turntables and see what they are doing.

well anyway. the night that dresden was on, all he had was a cd playing, i never saw any vinyl or anything, no cd changes at all, yea he was wearing headphones the whole night i can remember also. i didnt think much of it at the time but now that this topic is here, got me thinking.
thats all he did was play 1 cd track. headphones on for waht reason????

-ddr