Supreme Court + Obamacare

[res0nat0r]

Anyone guessing how they will rule? I am guessing they will strike down the law seeing as how they've ruled that corporations are people previously and seem to be owned by corporate america now...but you never know.

[AntonyM]

Re: Supreme Court + Obamacare

Would have to agree, secondly who and the hell is going to pay for the cost

[88Mariner]

Re: Supreme Court + Obamacare

Wow. Tell me about the way you misread Citizens United and the latest bitchslap against Montana's archaic law. I have a nice adjuct con law professor job opening up at Did Not Read University. Are you interested?

I did not seriously think anyone would believe that you lose your 1st Amendment rights if you group your resources with others. My mistake. I didn't realize people would be so blase about a massive stone in the foundation of individual liberty.

[clintlove]

Re: Supreme Court + Obamacare

An enormous step in getting health insurance on the right track would be to let companies sell coverage over state lines. Sure there would have to be some regulations set across the board to keep companies from grouping in favorable states, as well as making pre existing conditions a non factor. The competition between companies would drive coverage prices down, enabling those with lower incomes to now afford health insurance. Health insurance companies would grow, creating jobs and stimulating the economy.

It seems so simple to me.... am I wrong to think it's this easy?

[clintlove]

Re: Supreme Court + Obamacare

well, goodbye constitutional rights.... hello communist America....


Sad day for real hardworking Americans.

[Homegrove]

Re: Supreme Court + Obamacare

Yeah you so communist.

A Scandinavian.

[88Mariner]

Re: Supreme Court + Obamacare

Roberts just pissed in the mouths of the liberal justices and they think its champagne. Hysterical. This is great news. The commerce clause is now limited, obama now has to defend his new tax, and it is now a huge rallying point for taxpayers. PLUS the states can basically ignore this if they want to.

Holder about to be held in contempt.

This day could not turn out any bettet.

[vinnie97]

Re: Supreme Court + Obamacare

Remember in November:

“I can make a firm pledge. Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increases. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes.” - Barack Hussein Obama, Sept. 12, 2008

“If your family earns less than $250,000 a year, you will not see your taxes increased a single dime. I repeat: not a single dime.” - Barack Hussein Obama, Feb. 24, 2009

[subterFUSE]

Re: Supreme Court + Obamacare

Agreed. I think Roberts has handed the Republicans a silver-platter issue for the election. The 2010 election which swung congress back into Republican power was based largely on the unpopularity of Obamacare. Now it's back in play, and with the added issue of Obama having signed into law the largest tax increase in history.

[clintlove]

Re: Supreme Court + Obamacare

Yeah you so communist.

A Scandinavian.

come on man, it's the USSA

Roberts just pissed in the mouths of the liberal justices and they think its champagne. Hysterical. This is great news. The commerce clause is now limited, obama now has to defend his new tax, and it is now a huge rallying point for taxpayers. PLUS the states can basically ignore this if they want to.

Holder about to be held in contempt.

This day could not turn out any bettet.

I shot off at the mouth and spoke too soon before getting the whole story. This could very well backfire on his ass.

[Homegrove]

Re: Supreme Court + Obamacare

I read this in Reddit to try and understand this thing:

Okay, explained like you're a five year-old (well, okay, maybe a bit older), without too much oversimplification, and (hopefully) without sounding too biased:
What people call "Obamacare" is actually the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. However, people were calling it "Obamacare" before everyone even hammered out what it would be. It's a term mostly used by people who don't like the PPACA, and it's become popularized in part because PPACA is a really long and awkward name, even when you turn it into an acronym like that.
Anyway, the PPACA made a bunch of new rules regarding health care, with the purpose of making health care more affordable for everyone. Opponents of the PPACA, on the other hand, feel that the rules it makes take away too many freedoms and force people (both individuals and businesses) to do things they shouldn't have to.
So what does it do? Well, here is everything, in the order of when it goes into effect (because some of it happens later than other parts of it):
Already in effect:
It allows the Food and Drug Administration to approve more generic drugs (making for more competition in the market to drive down prices)
It increases the rebates on drugs people get through Medicare (so drugs cost less)
It establishes a non-profit group, that the government doesn't directly control, [1] PCORI, to study different kinds of treatments to see what works better and is the best use of money. ( [2] Citation: Page 665, sec. 1181 )
It makes chain restaurants like McDonalds display how many calories are in all of their foods, so people can have an easier time making choices to eat healthy. ( [3] Citation: Page 499, sec. 4205 )
It makes a "high-risk pool" for people with pre-existing conditions. Basically, this is a way to slowly ease into getting rid of "pre-existing conditions" altogether. For now, people who already have health issues that would be considered "pre-existing conditions" can still get insurance, but at different rates than people without them.
It renews some old policies, and calls for the appointment of various positions.
It creates a new 10% tax on indoor tanning booths. ( [4] Citation: Page 923, sec. 5000B )
It says that health insurance companies can no longer tell customers that they won't get any more coverage because they have hit a "lifetime limit". Basically, if someone has paid for health insurance, that company can't tell that person that he's used that insurance too much throughout his life so they won't cover him any more. They can't do this for lifetime spending, and they're limited in how much they can do this for yearly spending. ( [5] Citation: Page 14, sec. 2711 )
Kids can continue to be covered by their parents' health insurance until they're 26.
No more "pre-existing conditions" for kids under the age of 19.
Insurers have less ability to change the amount customers have to pay for their plans.
People in a "Medicare Gap" get a rebate to make up for the extra money they would otherwise have to spend.
Insurers can't just drop customers once they get sick. ( [6] Citation: Page 14, sec. 2712 )
Insurers have to tell customers what they're spending money on. (Instead of just "administrative fee", they have to be more specific).
Insurers need to have an appeals process for when they turn down a claim, so customers have some manner of recourse other than a lawsuit when they're turned down.
New ways to stop fraud are created.
Medicare extends to smaller hospitals.
Medicare patients with chronic illnesses must be monitored more thoroughly.
Reduces the costs for some companies that handle benefits for the elderly.
A new website is made to give people insurance and health information. (I think this is it: [7] http://www.healthcare.gov/

). A credit program is made that will make it easier for business to invest in new ways to treat illness.
A limit is placed on just how much of a percentage of the money an insurer makes can be profit, to make sure they're not price-gouging customers.
A limit is placed on what type of insurance accounts can be used to pay for over-the-counter drugs without a prescription. Basically, your insurer isn't paying for the Aspirin you bought for that hangover.
Employers need to list the benefits they provided to employees on their tax forms.
8/1/2012
Any health plans sold after this date must provide preventative care (mammograms, colonoscopies, etc.) without requiring any sort of co-pay or charge.
1/1/2013
If you make over $200,000 a year, your taxes go up a tiny bit (0.9%). Edit: To address those who take issue with the word "tiny", a change of 0.9% is relatively tiny. Any look at how taxes have fluctuated over the years will reveal that a change of less than one percent is miniscule, especially when we're talking about people in the top 5% of earners.
1/1/2014
This is when a lot of the really big changes happen.
No more "pre-existing conditions". At all. People will be charged the same regardless of their medical history.
If you can afford insurance but do not get it, you will be charged a fee. This is the "mandate" that people are talking about. Basically, it's a trade-off for the "pre-existing conditions" bit, saying that since insurers now have to cover you regardless of what you have, you can't just wait to buy insurance until you get sick. Otherwise no one would buy insurance until they needed it. You can opt not to get insurance, but you'll have to pay the fee instead, unless of course you're not buying insurance because you just can't afford it.
Insurers now can't do annual spending caps. Their customers can get as much health care in a given year as they need. ( [8] Citation: Page 14, sec. 2711 )
Make it so more poor people can get Medicaid by making the low-income cut-off higher.
Small businesses get some tax credits for two years.
Businesses with over 50 employees must offer health insurance to full-time employees, or pay a penalty.
Limits how high of an annual deductible insurers can charge customers.
Cut some Medicare spending
Place a $2500 limit on tax-free spending on FSAs (accounts for medical spending). Basically, people using these accounts now have to pay taxes on any money over $2500 they put into them.
Establish health insurance exchanges and rebates for the lower and middle-class, basically making it so they have an easier time getting affordable medical coverage.
Congress and Congressional staff will only be offered the same insurance offered to people in the insurance exchanges, rather than Federal Insurance. Basically, we won't be footing their health care bills any more than any other American citizen.
A new tax on pharmaceutical companies.
A new tax on the purchase of medical devices.
A new tax on insurance companies based on their market share. Basically, the more of the market they control, the more they'll get taxed.
The amount you can deduct from your taxes for medical expenses increases.
1/1/2015
Doctors' pay will be determined by the quality of their care, not how many people they treat. Edit: a_real_MD addresses questions regarding this one in far more detail and with far more expertise than I can offer in [9] this post. If you're looking for a more in-depth explanation of this one (as many of you are), I highly recommend you give his post a read.
1/1/2017
If any state can come up with their own plan, one which gives citizens the same level of care at the same price as the PPACA, they can ask the Secretary of Health and Human Resources for permission to do their plan instead of the PPACA. So if they can get the same results without, say, the mandate, they can be allowed to do so. Vermont, for example, has expressed a desire to just go straight to single-payer (in simple terms, everyone is covered, and medical expenses are paid by taxpayers).
2018
All health care plans must now cover preventative care (not just the new ones).
A new tax on "Cadillac" health care plans (more expensive plans for rich people who want fancier coverage).
2020
The elimination of the "Medicare gap"
.
Aaaaand that's it right there.
The biggest thing opponents of the bill have against it is the mandate. They claim that it forces people to buy insurance, and forcing people to buy something is unconstitutional. Personally, I take the opposite view, as it's not telling people to buy a specific thing, just to have a specific type of thing, just like a part of the money we pay in taxes pays for the police and firemen who protect us, this would have us paying to ensure doctors can treat us for illness and injury.
Plus, as previously mentioned, it's necessary if you're doing away with "pre-existing conditions" because otherwise no one would get insurance until they needed to use it, which defeats the purpose of insurance.
Whew! Hope that answers the question!

Then I read this because I still needed it dumbed down:

I'm going to take your post and explain it to a five year-old:
Bob: Hi, insurance company. I'd like to buy some health insurance.
Insurance company: No. You had cancer when you were 3 years old, and the cancer could come back. We're not selling you health insurance.
Bob: It's not my fault I got cancer when I was three! Besides, that was years ago!
Insurance company: If we sell insurance to you, we'll probably lose money, and we're not doing it.
Bob: But I need insurance more than anyone! My cancer might come back!
Insurance company: We don't care. We're not selling you insurance.
Obama: Hey, that's totally not fair. Bob is right, he does need insurance! Sell Bob some insurance.
Insurance company: If we have to, I guess.
Mary: This is cool. Obama said the insurance company has to sell insurance to anyone who needs it.
Sam: Hey, I have an idea. I'm going to stop paying for health insurance. If I get sick, I can always go buy some insurance then. The insurance company won't be able to say no, because Obama's told them they have to sell it to anyone who needs it!
Dave: that's a great idea! I'm not paying for health insurance either, at least not until I get sick.
Insurance company: Hey! If everyone stops paying for insurance, we'll go bankrupt!
Obama: Oh come on Sam and Dave, that's not fair either.
Dave: I don't care. It saves me money.
Obama: Oh for god's sake. Sam, Dave, you have to keep paying for health insurance, and not wait until you're sick. You too, Mary and Bob.
Mary: But I'm broke! I can't buy insurance! I just don't have any money.
Obama: Mary, show me your piggy bank. Oh, wow, you really are broke. Ok, tell you what. You still have to buy insurance, but I'll help you pay 95% of the cost.
Mary: thank you.
Obama: I need an aspirin.
Insurance company: We're not paying for that aspirin.
Also added should be:
All the people: Wait, won't this just mean we all give money to the companies and they keep it all?
Obama: No, they will be required to spend 85% of what they get paid in premiums on actual healthcare.

No PLEASE explain to me, like you would to a child, why this is all such a bad thing? Keep in mind that I've lived in a country where I pay 20 % tax out of my very meager income, but I get absolutely free health care, and the government pays a big percent if I need some sort of expensive drug for a condition I might have. And I consider it a fair trade.

[vinnie97]

Re: Supreme Court + Obamacare

The political points against the current regime aren't so great when you consider the precedent the court just set, that there is no limit to what the govt. can mandate you purchase, just so long as they identify/label it as a tax. That's one hardcore power grab.

[88Mariner]

Re: Supreme Court + Obamacare

If homegrove was from:

Nazi germany: someone PLEASE tell me why we cant murder jews, blacks, homosexuals...

China: someone PLEASE tell my why youre allowed to have more than one child

Nigeria: someone PLEASE tell me why we cant burn witches and have child slavery

Soviet Union: someone PLEASE tell my why the government cant control every facet of my life

North korea: someone PLEASE tell me why i shouldnt be forced to eat mud pies.


And so forth.

Basically " i personally dont see whats wrong with being forced to buy private goods as long as i'm forced to pay for it."

[88Mariner]

Re: Supreme Court + Obamacare

Your first mistake was reading reddit. Never go full tard like that.

[res0nat0r]

Re: Supreme Court + Obamacare

If I drink a fifth of Makers Mark and fall down the stairs and break my face open and goto the emergency room, they have to fix me up even if I'm a broke ass and don't have insurance, so why shouldn't you pay for something which must be provided to you? The money isn't going to come out of thin air otherwise....just like other social programs already on the books....