It's all connected - Just ask Tony Soprano

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  • cosmo
    Gold Gabber
    • Jun 2004
    • 583

    It's all connected - Just ask Tony Soprano

    Cal Thomas

    The commission looking into the causes of the 9/11 terror attacks on the United States did not conclude that claims by the Bush administration of ties between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda were pure myth, as many newspaper headlines and broadcast reports asserted. As the vice chairman of the panel, Lee Hamilton, stated, "There were connections between Al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein's government. We don't disagree on that."

    Perhaps this can be placed in a context more Americans would understand. Suppose that instead of radical Islamists (would the non-radicals kindly step forward and isolate and eliminate the radicals?), we were talking about the Mafia. Surely in our "Sopranos"-obsessed age we would immediately get it, wouldn't we?

    Let's say the Gambino family was mostly in charge of loan sharking. The Bonanno family ran prostitution rings. The Genovese family looked after the numbers racket. The Lucchese family established legitimate business fronts through which they laundered everyone's illegally obtained cash. A technical case could be made that members of the Genovese family were not directly connected to the activities of the Bonanno family. Neither could it technically be said that the Gambino boys had much to do with the fronts of the Luccheses. Does that mean there would be no direct criminal relationship among them, though all were part of the Mafia?

    Maybe Saddam Hussein didn't speak directly to Osama bin Laden, but he was part of the same "family." Saddam did not personally bomb targets inside Israel (except during the 1990 Gulf War) but he rewarded the families of homicide bombers. Does that prove a connection between Saddam and Palestinian terrorism? The guy who drives the getaway car is as guilty as the people who rob the bank and shoot the teller.

    Jeff Birnbaum of The Washington Post wrote: "The staff report (of the 9/11 Commission) indicates that there was considerable interaction between Bin Laden and Iraq ... it was clear that they're fellow travelers." Commission co-chair Thomas Kean said, "What we have found is, were there contacts between Al Qaeda and Iraq? Yes, some of them were shadowy - but they were there."

    This is far removed from the headlines that screamed "Al Qaeda-Hussein Link Is Dismissed" (Washington Post); "Panel Finds No Qaeda-Iraq Tie" (New York Times); "No Signs of Iraq-Al-Qaeda Ties Found" (Los Angeles Times).

    Russian President Vladimir Putin said last Friday (June 1 his government had warned Washington after 9/11 and before military operations in Iraq that Saddam Hussein's regime was preparing attacks in the United States and on its interests abroad.

    Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry observed on Oct. 9, 2002: "It would be naive to the point of grave danger not to believe that, left to his own devices, Saddam Hussein will provoke, misjudge or stumble into a future, more dangerous confrontation with the civilized world .... He has supported and harbored terrorist groups, particularly radical Palestinian groups such as Abu Nidal, and he has given money to families of suicide murderers in Israel .... We should not go to war because these things are in his past, but we should be prepared to go to war because of what they tell us about the future."

    Since then, Kerry has been singing a different tune because he wants to be president, and continuing support for President Bush's position won't help him win the election.

    These Islamists - from Osama bin Laden, to Saddam Hussein, to those inside Saudi Arabia who fund books and curricula that promote the hatred of all things American and Western - are part of the same "family." Some are Islamists by religious commitment, and others, like the secularist Saddam Hussein, got religion when he thought it might gain him some favor with other family members. All hate America and teach their people to do so in order to shift attention from their own failings to improve the lives of their people and focus, instead, on maintaining their own political power, personal privilege and pleasures.

    It's all connected. Ask Tony Soprano.
  • Civic_Zen
    Platinum Poster
    • Jun 2004
    • 1116

    #2
    Re: It's all connected - Just ask Tony Soprano

    Originally posted by cosmo
    Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry observed on Oct. 9, 2002: "It would be naive to the point of grave danger not to believe that, left to his own devices, Saddam Hussein will provoke, misjudge or stumble into a future, more dangerous confrontation with the civilized world .... He has supported and harbored terrorist groups, particularly radical Palestinian groups such as Abu Nidal, and he has given money to families of suicide murderers in Israel .... We should not go to war because these things are in his past, but we should be prepared to go to war because of what they tell us about the future."

    Since then, Kerry has been singing a different tune because he wants to be president, and continuing support for President Bush's position won't help him win the election.
    Yep. Kerry changed his stance. I really hate that guy. And his daughter is a frickin fascist. If he can raise something like that, would you want him as your president?



    Originally posted by cosmo
    These Islamists - from Osama bin Laden, to Saddam Hussein, to those inside Saudi Arabia who fund books and curricula that promote the hatred of all things American and Western - are part of the same "family." Some are Islamists by religious commitment, and others, like the secularist Saddam Hussein, got religion when he thought it might gain him some favor with other family members. All hate America and teach their people to do so in order to shift attention from their own failings to improve the lives of their people and focus, instead, on maintaining their own political power, personal privilege and pleasures.

    It's all connected. Ask Tony Soprano.
    I LOVE the Saprano analogy. Its spot on.
    "The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws." - Tacitus (55-117 A.D.)
    "That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
    - Thomas Jefferson

    Comment

    • Balanc3
      Platinum Poster
      • Jun 2004
      • 1278

      #3
      JourneyDeep .into the sound

      Comment

      • mylexicon
        Addiction started
        • Jun 2004
        • 339

        #4
        thanx cosmo that article makes me feel a lot better, now that i know other
        people, media people, realize how badly the 9/11 commission was misrepresented
        by the press.


        <-------NICE
        Be a vegan......eat freedom fries..

        Comment

        • delirious
          Addiction started
          • Jun 2004
          • 288

          #5
          Re: It's all connected - Just ask Tony Soprano

          Originally posted by cosmo
          These Islamists - from Osama bin Laden, to Saddam Hussein, to those inside Saudi Arabia who fund books and curricula that promote the hatred of all things American and Western - are part of the same "family." Some are Islamists by religious commitment, and others, like the secularist Saddam Hussein, got religion when he thought it might gain him some favor with other family members. All hate America and teach their people to do so in order to shift attention from their own failings to improve the lives of their people and focus, instead, on maintaining their own political power, personal privilege and pleasures.

          It's all connected. Ask Tony Soprano.
          I agree. That's why it's a bit hypocritical to bomb Iraq for it's ties with Al Queda and then send arms and ammunition to Saudi Arabia when they're actually part of the "same family".

          Saudi Arabia is America?s top customer. Since 1990, the U.S. government, through the Pentagon?s arms export program, has arranged for the delivery of more than $39.6 billion in foreign military sales to Saudi Arabia, and an additional $394 million worth of arms were delivered to the Saudi regime through the State Department?s direct commercial sales program during that same period. (Foreign Military and Construction Sales and Direct Commercial Sales are recorded and published by the Dept. of Defense in Foreign Military Sales, Foreign Military Construction Sales and Military Assistance Facts; the most current online edition includes information through FY 1999.)

          Oil rich Saudi Arabia is a cash-paying customer. It receives no U.S. military assistance to finance these purchases, although it does demand that about 35 percent of all major contracts be "offset"-that is, economic benefits equaling 35 percent of the arms contract value must be steered back to the Saudi economy. (Check out the Offsets Monitoring Project for more information on this phenomenon.)



          If the U.S wants to claim the moral high ground, they must be consistent and oppose all regimes that support terrorism... not just the ones it chooses.

          Comment

          • cosmo
            Gold Gabber
            • Jun 2004
            • 583

            #6
            If the U.S wants to claim the moral high ground, they must be consistent and oppose all regimes that support terrorism... not just the ones it chooses.
            What states to we support that support islamic fundamentalism? Saudi Arabia is full of islamic fundamentalists, but those very same fundamentalists are trying to overthrow the Saudi Gov't.


            I agree. That's why it's a bit hypocritical to bomb Iraq for it's ties with Al Queda and then send arms and ammunition to Saudi Arabia when they're actually part of the "same family".

            Again, the Saudi Government is in the midst of being overthrown by the same extremists you say we are selling arms to.

            Comment

            • delirious
              Addiction started
              • Jun 2004
              • 288

              #7
              Originally posted by cosmo
              If the U.S wants to claim the moral high ground, they must be consistent and oppose all regimes that support terrorism... not just the ones it chooses.
              What states to we support that support islamic fundamentalism? Saudi Arabia is full of islamic fundamentalists, but those very same fundamentalists are trying to overthrow the Saudi Gov't.
              But it's those same fundamentalists the Saudi gov't is giving money to.


              WASHINGTON -- Two U.S. senators ? a Democrat and a Republican ? are calling for get-tough measures against Saudi Arabia because of its increasingly obvious links to global Islamic jihadist terrorism.

              The royal family of Saudi Arabia donated more than $4 billion to the Palestinians between 1998 and 2003 to help finance offensive terrorist operations against Israel, a new report says.

              According to the Middle East Media Research Institute, a Washington, D.C-based group that monitors Mideast media, the House of Saud's support has gone to "'Mujahideen fighters' and 'families of martyrs'" killed in operations against the Jewish state.

              "For decades the royal family of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia has been the main financial supporter of Palestinian groups fighting Israel, through the creation of two major committees," says the report, which was released July 3.

              The committees were identified by MEMRI as the Popular Committee for Assisting Palestinian Mujahideen and The Support Committee for the Al-Quds Intifada, as well as The Al-Aqsa Fund.

              Besides the $4 billion already spent, the Saudi government "reportedly pledged Palestinians up to $1 billion to finance the continuation of the Intifada, which is also commonly referred to by Saudi officials as 'jihad' and 'resistance,'" said the well-documented report, authored by MEMRI Executive Director Steven Stalinsky.

              A federal investigation into the bank accounts of the Saudi Embassy in Washington has identified more than $27 million in "suspicious" transactions?including hundreds of thousands of dollars paid to Muslim charities, and to clerics and Saudi students who are being scrutinized for possible links to terrorist activity, according to government documents obtained by NEWSWEEK. The probe also has uncovered large wire transfers overseas by the Saudi ambassador to the United States, Prince Bandar bin Sultan. The transactions recently prompted the Saudi Embassy's longtime bank, the Riggs Bank of Washington, D.C., to drop the Saudis as a client after embassy officials were "unable to provide an explanation that was satisfying," says a source familiar with the discussions.

              "The key question now is whether the Saudi government is doing enough to stop the flow of this money," Collins said. "And if not, what actions the U.S. government should take to prompt the Saudis to take more effective action."

              Levin said that in addition to obstructing investigations, the Saudi government was one of the few governments in the world that supported the Taliban in Afghanistan despite the Taliban's link to terrorists. He said that while working to strengthen ties with the United States, Saudi authorities funded extreme Muslim clerics and Islamic schools in Pakistan that provided recruits for the Taliban.
              Breaking News, Latest News and Current News from FOXNews.com. Breaking news and video. Latest Current News: U.S., World, Entertainment, Health, Business, Technology, Politics, Sports.

              WASHINGTON ? Lawmakers investigating the Sept. 11 attacks believe the FBI has not aggressively pursued the possibility that the Saudi government provided money to students who helped two of the hijackers, aides said Saturday.
              The committee, whose final classified report will be finished in December, also accused the Saudi government of not fully cooperating with American investigators.
              Many more cites available

              Originally posted by cosmo
              Again, the Saudi Government is in the midst of being overthrown by the same extremists you say we are selling arms to.
              Nope, I said the government is supporting the Saudi regime... not selling arms to the terrorists!

              Comment

              • cosmo
                Gold Gabber
                • Jun 2004
                • 583

                #8
                Of course there are clerics within the Royal family that are sympathetic to the cause no doubt. But you can't just wipe out the Saudi Government. That would have disasterous consequences.

                You may be intrested in a book I bought last year. It's from an author Dore Gold. It's called Hatreds Kingdom: How Saudi Arabia supports global terrorism. It's a great book - it goes into the history of wahhabism and the build up to some of the clerics within Saudi Arabia.

                Some clerics are sympathetic, some aren't. The one's that are sympathetic are the ones that want the power from the King and princes that are in power at the moment. There is actually a war within the family.

                Comment

                • delirious
                  Addiction started
                  • Jun 2004
                  • 288

                  #9
                  Originally posted by cosmo
                  Of course there are clerics within the Royal family that are sympathetic to the cause no doubt. But you can't just wipe out the Saudi Government. That would have disasterous consequences.

                  You may be intrested in a book I bought last year. It's from an author Dore Gold. It's called Hatreds Kingdom: How Saudi Arabia supports global terrorism. It's a great book - it goes into the history of wahhabism and the build up to some of the clerics within Saudi Arabia.

                  Some clerics are sympathetic, some aren't. The one's that are sympathetic are the ones that want the power from the King and princes that are in power at the moment. There is actually a war within the family.
                  Thanks for the tip. I'll definately check it out.

                  Comment

                  • acmatos
                    Getting warmed up
                    • Jun 2004
                    • 96

                    #10
                    You have to realize the significance of Saudi Arabia controlling 1/3 of all known oil reserves. That's all that matters. Doing something that will cause them to stop pumping or exporting oil would be insane right now.
                    Don't blame me, I'm just the messenger.

                    Comment

                    • delirious
                      Addiction started
                      • Jun 2004
                      • 288

                      #11
                      Originally posted by acmatos
                      You have to realize the significance of Saudi Arabia controlling 1/3 of all known oil reserves. That's all that matters. Doing something that will cause them to stop pumping or exporting oil would be insane right now.
                      The thing is by choosing to change certain regimes for very questionable ties to terrorism, while sending arms to regimes with far deeper and active ties, the US is being hypocritical. Bush said that all regimes that aid terrorists are "with the terrorists".

                      That's why the rest of the world is pissed off with the current US administration... because it claims things like fighting terror and liberation while actually making oil and economics the real priorities.

                      And we will pursue nations that provide aid or safe haven to terrorism. Every nation in every region now has a decision to make: Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists.
                      President Bush
                      The latest news and information from the Biden-Harris administration.

                      Comment

                      • brakada
                        Gold Gabber
                        • Jun 2004
                        • 622

                        #12
                        Originally posted by cosmo
                        Again, the Saudi Government is in the midst of being overthrown by the same extremists you say we are selling arms to.
                        And in case the Saudis are overthrown, who will get hands on those weapons?

                        I'm sure you will feel a lot safer then, won't you? Or you will even have an excuse to attack them...

                        It's been the same with Iraq and Sadam. The US sold/gave him a lot of his weapons, but those same weapons were their excuse to attack Iraq. Shouldn't they NOT SELL him the weapons in the first place... :?

                        And how do you know that the Saudi Government isn't directly supporting terrorist organisations. My guess (which is as good as yours; after all we do not have any proof of our claims) is that a large amount of money to support terrorist organisations comes from there, and their government is not doing a thing to stop it.
                        We shall boldly dance, where no man has danced before..."

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