Michael Moore and His Lies, EXPOSED!!

[Civic_Zen]

This is an attempt to dismantle everything which Michael Moore stands for. In this thread, I will be giving you reasons why you too, should discredit this man. Or at the very least, understand him. That doesn't sound like a lot, but most people have no clue as to what this man actually stands for. This is even more important if you are an American.

Michael Moore is Not Telling You the Whole truth

This is not to say that he always blatantly lies. Its more about twisting the facts, and giving the viewer half truths, or manipulating the context of each issue so that it comes accross entiretly different then what it would if you were given the whole story. Just remember one important thing as you read this, there are TWO sides to every story, that is a very important rule and one which will serve you very well throughout your life.

Michael Moore is a masterful film maker, yes that is a compliment. He is very good at what he does, which is pretty much what I described in the paragraph above. But Michael Moore is a documentarian, he makes documentaries. And contrary to whatever you may think, the majority of his viewers go into the films he makes thinking it is all true because of this, or at least mostly true. Those that are into his idea's, or politics in general, often times go do more research on the issues and realize this about him, whether they are fans of his or wish death upon him. But they are the minority, most will never research the other side of things.

So the main point that I'm trying to bring accross with all this is: Before you accept what you see in his latest film F9/11, or any of his works, I urge you to just go out and do some research yourself. See if what you find matches what you were told in his movie, and go into this with an open mind. Whether you are liberal or conservative, or neither, you owe it to yourself and you country to learn about his agenda and his beliefs a lot of which I will go into here, but don't take this as gospel, remember, explore the issues.

Michael Moore Manipulates Victims

Moore held a screening of Bowling for Columbine in Littleton, Colorado for the families of Columbine victims, where he charged admission.

- Columbine mother Anne Hetcher "Its laughable that Michael Moore attempts to portray himself as an anti-astablishment liberal who is the voice of the common man, when in fact he is no better then the greedy capitalists he shuns. Maybe now that he has made millions of dollars off the blood of our children, he could toss a DVD or two our way to view."

- Mark Taylor, one of the victims that Moore took to K-Mart for the film, describing Moore. "I am completely against him, he screwed me over. I had no idea what Moore's adenda was. And he had an agenda, he had it all planned out. I believe that every American has the right to own a gun. We should have the right to protect ourselves."

I, for one, may have a little better understanding then most regarding what happened at Columbine. I live in Denver, Colorado, and attended High School no more then 2 miles away from Columbine. I had many friends that knew people who were involved one way or another, and knew one of the victims myself. She was a great person, and lost her life tragically. However, I had a chance to speak with her mother some years after the incident. And she told me she felt the exact same way as the two people I quoted above. Columbine was a tragedy, and Moore was only in it for the money.

Michael Moore thinks American's are Stupid

Moore has two personalities. In America, he plays the role of "hero for the common American". But when he is in other countries, he criticizes and insults the very same group of American's he claims to be the role model for. The common man.

- To the German fans, Moore asked "Should such an ignorant people (American's) rule the world."

- When a Japanese interviewer remarked that Moore did not appear to like America very much, he said "I like America to some extent."

- In England, regarding American intelligence, "They are possibly the dumbest people on the planet."

- When in Canada. "Just for my own mental health, I need to go sit in a room with 600 canadians and watch my movie."

And you think this is a man that respects you enough, as American common men and women, to tell you the unbridled truth??

Is Fahrenheit 9/11 Factually Accurate

Two points that have already been discussed, but I will post again here.

- Moore states that the Bush administration arranged for special flights (at a time when all flights were grounded) for the bin Laden family to get out of America right after 9/11. The whole truth is that only one man was responsible, Richard Clark who was indeed part of the Bush administration, but has since been decommissioned. And prior to that, was a huge Bush supporter, but since has actually written books criticizing him and his former co-workers. The point is that he ALONE was responsible for what happened, and was probably part of the reason behind his dismissal.

- Moore states that Bush attacked Afgahnastan for the main reason of building an oil pipeline through the country. This is one of the most downright retarded statements in the whole film, as we all know that bin Laden and al Quada were responsible for 9/11 and that this is where they call home. As of today, there has been no such pipeline built. Nor is there any plan and/or contract that suggest that one will ever be built. Its actually one of the few statements in this film that can be entirely dismissed.

I'm sure there will be more things to learn, and facts that he twisted once the film comes out and more political people see it. For now, this is reason enough to know that Moore is exactly what most people see him for.

Last but not least.

Moore hates Small Business America

Do you own a small business? Have plans to start one? Or work for one maybe?

- Moore on small businesses in Flint, Michigan "You know in my town, the small businesses that everyone wanted to protect? They were the people who supported all the right-wing groups. They wee the Rupublicans in the town, they were the Kiwanas, the chamber of commerce - People that kep the talk all white. The small hardware salesman, the small clothing store salesman. F`ck all these small businesses, f`ck em all. Bring in the chains. The small business people are the rednecks that run the towns and suppress the people. F`ck them all. Thats how I feel."

And yet I thought the modern day liberal was against big business, and for the little man. The little man is the small business owner there Michael. You are so ass backwards and hypocritical on all your statements.

Find Out the Truth

Chances are you have never heard any of the quotes listed here. This is because the vast majority of the major media agree with Moore's viewpoints, and will do nothing to challenge them. There are however various online resourrces at your disposal.

I said this was the most important part, so if you take nothing else out of this, just do the research yourself. You will notice what I'm talking about. You will also notice that nothing written here was taken out of context, or twisted like Moore loves to do.

Fahrenheit 9/11 ends with Moore telling you to "Do Something." I couldn't agree more.

[cosmo]

[delirious]

Re: Michael Moore and His Lies, EXPOSED!!

I'm not going to write some long-winded article in defence of Michael Moore because I don't think much of him myself.

However, some inaccuracies in this post should be pointed out:

- Moore states that the Bush administration arranged for special flights (at a time when all flights were grounded) for the bin Laden family to get out of America right after 9/11. The whole truth is that only one man was responsible, Richard Clark who was indeed part of the Bush administration, but has since been decommissioned. And prior to that, was a huge Bush supporter, but since has actually written books criticizing him and his former co-workers. The point is that he ALONE was responsible for what happened, and was probably part of the reason behind his dismissal.

That doesn't make what Michael Moore said factually inaccurate. At most you could say he should've been more specific in order not to mislead people.

There's no evidence to support your allegations that Richard Clark resigned just before the Iraq war because of the plane authorisation.

- Moore states that Bush attacked Afgahnastan for the main reason of building an oil pipeline through the country. This is one of the most downright retarded statements in the whole film, as we all know that bin Laden and al Quada were responsible for 9/11 and that this is where they call home. As of today, there has been no such pipeline built. Nor is there any plan and/or contract that suggest that one will ever be built. Its actually one of the few statements in this film that can be entirely dismissed.

Central Asia pipeline deal signed



Friday, 27 December, 2002

An agreement has been signed in the Turkmen capital, Ashgabat, paving the way for construction of a gas pipeline from the Central Asian republic through Afghanistan to Pakistan.

The building of the trans-Afghanistan pipeline has been under discussion for some years but plans have been held up by Afghanistan's unstable political situation.

This follows a summit meeting bringing together the presidents of the three countries last May when the project received formal go-ahead.

The pipeline would represent the first major foreign investment in Afghanistan in many years.

Alternate route

With improved regional security after the fall of the Taleban about a year ago, Afghanistan, Turkmenistan and Pakistan have decided to push ahead with plans for the ambitious 1,500-kilometre-long gas pipeline.

The leaders of the three countries have now signed a framework agreement defining the legal aspects of setting up a consortium to build and operate the pipeline.

The trans-Afghanistan pipeline would export Turkmen gas via Afghanistan to Pakistani ports, from where it could reach world markets.

India is the largest potential buyer and the Afghan President, Hamid Karzai, said Delhi was welcome to join the project.

Turkmenistan has some of the world's greatest reserves of natural gas, but still relies on tightly controlled Russian pipelines to export it.

Ashgabat has long been desperate to find an alternative export route.

Wary investors

Afghanistan would profit by receiving millions of dollars in transit fees and construction of the pipeline would provide thousands of desperately needed jobs.

It is also hoped such a project would boost regional economic ties and pave the way for further foreign investment.

The chief difficulty will be actually finding the money to build the pipeline.

The Asian Development Bank is carrying out a study for the project.

But investors will be very cautious about putting serious money into Afghanistan when the central government in Kabul still has only limited influence in the regions the pipeline would cross.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2608713.stm[/img]

[Galapidate]

Something is wrong with the two people on the manipulation section, especially the victim of Columbine. If someone got permanently handicapped the rest of their life because of guns, any sane person would be protesting for gun regulation. As for the comment by the woman, so? Mel Gibson made millions off of Christ's last hours, so how come that didn't spark huge controversy?

[mylexicon]

Re: Michael Moore and His Lies, EXPOSED!!

- Moore on small businesses in Flint, Michigan "You know in my town, the small businesses that everyone wanted to protect? They were the people who supported all the right-wing groups. They wee the Rupublicans in the town, they were the Kiwanas, the chamber of commerce - People that kep the talk all white. The small hardware salesman, the small clothing store salesman. F`ck all these small businesses, f`ck em all. Bring in the chains. The small business people are the rednecks that run the towns and suppress the people. F`ck them all. Thats how I feel."

Yeah this kind of thing chaps my ass. Michael Moore claims he supports
small businesses but he also said on the O'Reilly show that he believed the
highest tax bracket should be 70%. Small business owners (sole
proprietors) pay taxes based upon their income level. Good luck ever living
above the status of pauper if you want to grow your small business. But
then again i guess that's what being a liberal is all about......making sure
people receive no reward for smart entreprenuership other than grief and high taxes.

No delirious i don't have a link to the O'Reilly manuscript.....but i'll try to find one




Now this story is kind of interesting. I mean if anything i would be more happy
with Bush if he accomplished this while slaying Osama's henchmen and
destroying the Taliban. It's something perhaps that should be investigated,
but i think that getting rid of the Taliban and
Al-Qaeda isn't an ignoble effort if we help three poor countries develop something
they can grow an economy around.

I mean honestly, the only thing that makes Moore's arguments so powerful
is the fact that Bush hasn't been boasting about our success. Normally, you
attack a region and then you spend money rebuiding afterwards. Slowly the
economy recovers after 5 or maybe 10 years. But with Bush, the rebuilding
is profitable the day after fighting stops and sometimes before. Not only is
that good for them, but it is good for us and our global reputation as well.

If Bush said "We kicked the shit out of Al-Qaeda and the Taliban and the
region has now been able to push through a new deal that will help rebuild
their economies", i don't think most people would have cared.

Honestly, the more stuff i see about Moore's movie, the more proud i am
of our special ops, strategic planners, and Bush's unabashed behavior. I think
he is the first President since TR who has said he's going to kill bad guys
and enjoy it. The very thought of giving up the war on terror because it might
actually benefit us is just insane.

Sure, when war benefits you, you have to be on guard to make sure that
you don't start attacking people who don't deserve it ......Osama bin Laden
and Saddam Hussein don't fall under that category They have been
asking for it for years now and Bush is finally taking out the trash.

[delirious]

Re: Michael Moore and His Lies, EXPOSED!!

No delirious i don't have a link to the O'Reilly manuscript.....but i'll try to find one

Well at least you told us where the info came from :wink:

[dohturdima]

A link to an article re. Moore film:

http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/?GT1=3584

[delirious]

Re: Michael Moore and His Lies, EXPOSED!!

I mean honestly, the only thing that makes Moore's arguments so powerful is the fact that Bush hasn't been boasting about our success. Normally, you attack a region and then you spend money rebuiding afterwards. Slowly the economy recovers after 5 or maybe 10 years. But with Bush, the rebuilding is profitable the day after fighting stops and sometimes before. Not only is that good for them, but it is good for us and our global reputation as well.

Really?

One day after President Bush gave the nation a cautious view of rebuilding efforts in Iraq, senior administration officials for the first time acknowledged that they vastly underestimated the damage to the country's infrastructure and greatly overestimated the amount of oil revenue that could be used to help rebuild the war-torn country.
Yesterday's sobering assessments came as members of Congress are contemplating Bush's request for $87 billion to stabilize Iraq and Afghanistan -- and call into question earlier pronouncements by administration officials about the size and cost of the job.

The disclosures, coming on the heels of Bush's prime-time address, mark the administration's strongest acknowledgment to date that it failed to fully comprehend the complexities of rebuilding Iraq.

Years of neglect by deposed president Saddam Hussein left the country's infrastructure in much worse shape than anyone imagined, one administration official said. And current oil revenue estimates of $12 billion this year and $40 billion in 2005 and 2006 will be less than half what administration officials previously told Congress would be available to offset US costs to rebuild the country.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2003/09/09/bush_aides_admit_iraq_missteps/

[Civic_Zen]

Something is wrong with the two people on the manipulation section, especially the victim of Columbine. If someone got permanently handicapped the rest of their life because of guns, any sane person would be protesting for gun regulation.

You have no idea what your talking about Galapidate. As I stated in the post, I know people, personally, that were affected by the tragedy which still believe that we have the right to own guns to protect ourselves. In fact, it may have reaffirmed there beliefs. I think there is something wrong with you for thinking that you actually have any understanding, whatsoever, about what happened and how it affected the people involved.

Only the naive truly believe that by guns becoming illegal, will it hinder any criminals from getting them. This is one of the biggest things I hate Moore for. Someday, maybe guns will be outlawed in America, and then you will truly understand what I'm talking about.

The only other time in American history that the Constitution was ammended, was when we decided prohibition was a good idea. At no time, was alchohol in this country more abundent then during that time period. It will be exactly like that if an American's rights to own a gun is ammended in the constitution. When that happens, I, myself, will be one of the many figuring out how to make guns in my bath tub.

[mylexicon]

Re: Michael Moore and His Lies, EXPOSED!!

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/wa...iraq_missteps/

A Taxachussets newpaper criticizing george bush??!!!! :o No way! Wait where is John Kerry from again?

Try again.

Bad forecasts simply means we have more work to do making sure we get
Iraqi oil production up. Besides they missed forecasts, which means this war
won't be profitable for us, Iraq is still making money!!!!!. This war
wasn't supposed to be about making us money, remember? This is about
turning Iraq around.

Damn liberals have got their balls dangled over every barbed wire fence in
America. Every dollar you spend helping other people that ends up benefitting
you will make you more and more a hypocrit. Every time you gripe about gas
prices you put oil before other ideologies. You want the President to be a man
with international connections and appeal. Then you find out all his buddies
live in the Middle East and they are all "terrorists". If thats not about as stereotypical
as it gets i don't know what is........if the media ever gives up on you, youre
fucked.

Thank god i vote for a party of people who acknowledges the inherent flaws
in mankind and works hard to make sure they are kept to a minimum. There
is very little self-righteous narcissism in Bush's administration, he is just as
flawed as every other person on earth. Yet, Liberals seem to be surprised by
the fact he is not perfect like Clinton or Gore.

[Kobe]

Re: Michael Moore and His Lies, EXPOSED!!

Michael Moore is Not Telling You the Whole truth

But Bush is? You seem to have such a problem with Moore's lies, spin and distortions, yet you take everything you President says as the truth. You have to be pretty naive to think politicians are honest. Have you ever examined your government with the same level of scrutiny as you have for a guy who makes movies? Seems to me the president has more influence over our lives than Moore.

Until you decide to stop being a complete hypocrite, spare me the sanctimonious bullshit.

[mylexicon]

Re: Michael Moore and His Lies, EXPOSED!!

Seems to me the president has more influence over our lives than Moore.

If you want the media to get even worse than it already is.....just keep it up.
The media wants you to believe that the commander in chief of the
armed forces, whose soul purpose is to control foreign policy and sign legislation
that Congress makes up, has complete control over everything, no wonder you're a liberal. You vote for some figurehead to
eliminate your imaginary problems so that you can live your entire lives with
the inherent wisdom of a child. The media controls people these days and
how they feel about things. You either buy into it or you turn your back on
it. The President could kill 2 billion people and as long as the media never
reports it......it would never affect your day to day activities. They are an
amoral lot on a moral crusade and Moore is one of their unwitting patsies. He
spews about how much the media sucks. The media puts it on the air and
makes an assload of money. The more the show it, the more people hate
the media and the more they feel compelled to watch it

It is one of the grandest business operations i have ever seen in my life.
Distributing slanderous information about yourself while reaping huge profit.
The only place people can come for more slanderous hate filled
propaganda, is back to you Fucking Rich!

The dems do the same thing, they teach you to care about what happens to
other people so that they benefit. Imagine what would happen if Dems started saying
"We have a problem with poverty and pollution and it is up to each individual
to uphold his/her patriotic duty to this country by doing everything in their power
to make sure the problem is alleviated." All of a sudden nobody cares about
voting for the democratic party because the power to fix America's problems
lies in the hands of the people.......where it has always lain. Dems are hell
bent on making you feel helpless, repulsed, and spiteful so that they reap
the political rewards of controlling the government. They want to be the
ones to solve America's problems because they don't believe the average
American can do it. Bush believes the average American can solve his or
her own problems; but he knows the media is working against him every step
of the way.......

The media has turned killing/capturing terrorists, liberating Iraqis, enforcing
U.N. policy, lifting sanctions and debt from Iraqi shoulders, capturing Saddam,
and offering a chance for democracy into a bad thing.

I have no fucking idea how they did it, but i guess they are that fucking good
at what they do.

[Civic_Zen]

Re: Michael Moore and His Lies, EXPOSED!!

Michael Moore is Not Telling You the Whole truth

But Bush is? You seem to have such a problem with Moore's lies, spin and distortions, yet you take everything you President says as the truth. You have to be pretty naive to think politicians are honest. Have you ever examined your government with the save level of scrutiny as you have for a guy who makes movies? Seems to me the president has more influence over our lives than Moore.

Until you decide to stop being a complete hypocrite, spare me the sanctimonious bullshit.

Why is it that you liberal pri<ks have such a tendancy to be so presumptuous?

1 - If you dont like the sanctinonious bullshit then go to another thread. This thread isn't for the week minded media whore.

2 - You obviously didn't read the whole thread because I intended in no way of force feeding you sh~t like the media does for you. Obviously you like to be spoon fed, but I made it clear that this is for informational purposes only.

3 - I don't know why its so hard for people here to understand, but Michael Moore is hated by EVERYONE who knew anyone that was part of the Columbine tragedy. This is an issue LONG before Bush's time, and long before most on this board ever stopped to think about it. I guess its too hard for you to understand that BLAMING an entire COUNTRY and its policies even though it is the best country on earth, for the tragedies that have occured is completely detrimental to their memory.

4 - I IN NO WAY take everything Bush says and establish it with the truth. Just like you said, all politician's lie. I know that going in, I know that Bush will probably lie even if he, himself isn't aware that it is a lie. I expect that from the government which is why I believe the government should be limited in power as much as possible.

The difference is that Moore is looked at, not as a politician, but as a documentarian. Which he is not. He is 10 times worse then any politician in Washington, and if you can't see that then I could give a f~ck less. Obviously you just listen to whatever CNN is telling you and leave it at that, because you have no idea what your talking about.

5 - Where in the hell do I even mention Bush? Let alone that I believe everything he says? Your putting words in my mouth. Your just being slanderous to be a pri<k or something. This thread has nothing to do with Bush at all.

6 - Moore has much more control over the American People, actually the entire world, then Bush does. The People elect the representatives for Congress, Congress has to approve anything and everything Bush wants to do. Congress approved the war in Iraq, thus the people approved the war in Iraq because they elected Congress. This goes for everything Bush does. He wants to ban gay marriages, actually, he wants to AMMEND the Constitution of the United States with a law banning gay marriages. THAT LAW WILL NEVER PASS. Why? Because Congress has to approve it, and from what I understand its already been long since shot down.

The only thing the president has control of, is in an emergency situation, he can push the red button. Thats it. Everything else he wants to do has to be approved. Entirely, by the people, in a matter of speaking, through their elected officials.

[FM]

..

[Kobe]

Easy there guys, no need to get all hot under the collar. Let's leave the name calling aside, I'm trying to have a debate, not a flame war. I never try to be a pri<k, it comes quite naturally, thank you!

So you are going to run to your text books and quote to me how the government is supposed to work, completely ignoring the reality of situation. I guess you've never heard that the administration spends many a late night calling congressmen soliciting/using political pressure to influence the fate of a bill. I don't supposed you believe they do that without the president's knowledge or consent, or have you been watching the Iran-Contra hearings lately?

The assertion that a filmmaker has more power than the leader of the free world is a bit far fetched. That was a lovely diatribe about the media, and I agree with most of it, but let's not put the cart before the horse. The media are only the commentators, it is the government who are the players on the field. And we should be glad for the 4th estate... it is pretty necessary in a system currently operating with no checks and balances. Is the media perfect? No. Do we need them? Yes.

I did not read the thread, I apologize for that. Civic, forgive me for thinking you take Bush's side on most issues, where did I ever get that idea? I guess my comments are off topic for this thread, but the point still stands: one either accepts lies and distortions, or not.

If you don't think that an elected public servant, who is sworn into office doesn't have more responsibility and culpability to you than a guy with a camera, then I suggest you rethink that one. I see it as the opposite: nobody believes the media, discredit the source is the new favorite game in our society. OTOH, clearly we have people in this country who trust their chosen political party implicitly.