Reality is unravelling for Bush

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  • delirious
    Addiction started
    • Jun 2004
    • 288

    Reality is unravelling for Bush

    Reality is unravelling for Bush

    Even negative attacks on Kerry no longer seem to be working


    At the Pentagon, on June 10, while business in Washington had officially halted as the body of Ronald Reagan lay in state, defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld convened an emergency meeting on the Abu Ghraib scandal, according to a reliable source privy to its proceedings. Rumsfeld began the extraordinary session by saying that certain documents needed to "get out" that would show that there was no policy approving of torture and that what had happened in Iraq and Afghanistan was aberrant.

    The Senate armed services committee had been conducting hearings whose corrosive impact needed to be countered. Rumsfeld complained about "serial requests" for information from Congress. Yet he was even more upset by subpoenas of defence officials issued by the special prosecutor in the case of Valerie Plame. The Pentagon, Rumsfeld said, was nearly "at a stop" because of them. Rumsfeld admitted he was startled by the uproar over Abu Ghraib: "There are so many international organisations."

    On June 22, the White House released documents on policy on torture, including a directive signed on February 7 2002 by Bush stating that he has "the authority under the constitution" to abrogate the Geneva conventions, that the Taliban and al-Qaida as non-signatories were not covered by them, and that consequently Bush "declines to exercise that authority at this time". Rumsfeld's damage control was simply one front in the expanding Bush administration war for credibility.

    Vice-president Dick Cheney staged a preemptive strike last week by reiterating that Saddam Hussein and al-Qaida had a relationship and insinuating that they were in league. His intended target was the 9/11 commission, which is dangerously independent. Its Republican co-chairman, Thomas Kean, replied that there was "no credible evidence" that Saddam and al-Qaida had collaborated. Bush entered the battle, repeating that there was indeed a "relationship". Then the Democratic co-chairman of the commission, Lee Hamilton, explained that al-Qaida had in fact approached Saddam seeking his help, but that it had been rebuffed. The rejection was the relationship. But Bush and Cheney's affirmative assertions made it seem that the "relationship" was affirmative.

    The urgency of Bush's credibility crisis surfaced in the latest Washington Post-ABC News poll showing the collapse of Bush's standing on terrorism, losing 13 points since April, putting Kerry even on the issue and one point ahead in the contest. But even more worrying was Bush's rating on trust. By a margin of 52% to 39%, Kerry is seen as more honest and trustworthy.

    Since March 3, the Bush-Cheney campaign has spent an estimated $80m on mostly negative advertising, to eliminate Kerry at the starting gate. The strategy was the acceleration of the lesson of Bush's father's victorious effort in the 1988 campaign when, 17 points behind in mid-summer, he shattered Michael Dukakis with a withering negative attack.

    Now, Bush's opponent is not only moving ahead, but the failed assault may insulate Kerry against future offensives. Bush had every reason to believe that his attack on Kerry's image would succeed. After September 11, he was able to impose his explanations on the public almost without resistance and to taint anyone who contradicted them as somehow unpatriotic.

    With Congress in Republican hands, checks and balances were effectively removed. Most of the media was on the bandwagon or intimidated. Cheney himself called the president of the corporation that owned one of the networks to complain about an errant commentator. Political aides directed by Karl Rove ceaselessly called editors and producers with veiled threats about access that was not granted in any case. The press would not bite the hand that would not feed it.

    But Bush's projection of images can only faintly be seen on the screen, which is overwhelmed with Bush's past images of triumph unreeling in reverse. The majority of the people had supported the war in Iraq because they believed that Saddam was involved in the terrorist attacks of September 11. Bush envisioned the Iraqi war unfolding into a new world order: the liberation of Iraq resembling the liberation of France, democracy flowering throughout the Middle East, and the Palestinians submitting quietly to Sharon's fait accompli .

    But the neoconservative prophesies had been advanced by suppressing the scepticism of the US intelligence agencies, the military and the state department. Without deranging and dismissing the professionalism of the basic institutions of national security, Bush would not have been able to sustain his reasons. Bush's battle is not with image, but with the unravelling of his reality.
    Sidney Blumenthal: Even negative attacks on Kerry no longer seem to be working.


    With a few months still to go, this election is going to be very interesting. I predict Kerry will win nationwide by around 10 points. Remember you heard it here first.
  • Civic_Zen
    Platinum Poster
    • Jun 2004
    • 1116

    #2
    To what you said about Kerry winning. Not a single political analyst since Kerry has become the democratic nominee, has predicted Kerry will win. In fact, everyone knows that Bush will win. Why do you think Moore felt it urgent to make and release a film like F9/11? Of course, Moore is such a retard, he probably thinks it will actually help.

    I hope Kerry wins the popular vote, and Bush wins by the electoral college again. :ROFLMAO:

    Oh ..... the look on all the liberal face's around the nation, and around the world, would be priceless. Utterly priceless.
    "The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws." - Tacitus (55-117 A.D.)
    "That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
    - Thomas Jefferson

    Comment

    • gokada
      Getting Somewhere
      • Jun 2004
      • 216

      #3
      I realize polls are somewhat sketchy...CNN and Fox, for example, might conduct the same poll and get different numbers...but as of today, a Fox poll that had the percentage of people that would vote for Bush was at 48 percent and Kerry was at 42 percent...damnit, my percentage key isn't working!!! Hold on...okay, I'm back, just checked the CNN poll and Bush is ahead 51 percent to Kerry's 43. The war in Iraq is the most important topic right now, and most people also favor Bush over Kerry in that aspect. Kerry is favored when it comes to the economy. But the economy is coming back, slowly but surely, which could save Bush without a doubt. Not to mention, no one really knows what Kerry stands for, oh yeah, he stands for everything...or nothing....

      Gokada
      Glenn Okada (www.glennokada.com)
      "...without struggle, there is no progress."

      Comment

      • davetlv
        Platinum Poster
        • Jun 2004
        • 1205

        #4
        Originally posted by Civic_Zen
        I hope Kerry wins the popular vote, and Bush wins by the electoral college again. :ROFLMAO:
        Not being an American citizen, I try to keep out of these debates about Bush/Kerry . . . however Civic your comment about Kerry winning the popular vote and Bush winning the electoral college interests me. I guess this is what happened in 2000 with Bush/Gore.

        What i fail to understand is how such a so-called democracy, and it could be any democracy not necessarily just the US, can allow a system where the person who wins the most votes in an election does not win the position? Would appreciate an explaination if there is one from someone!

        Comment

        • mylexicon
          Addiction started
          • Jun 2004
          • 339

          #5
          Re: Reality is unravelling for Bush

          Originally posted by delirious
          Sidney Blumenthal: Even negative attacks on Kerry no longer seem to be working.
          Reading a European paper to tell you what to think about American
          politics is like sleeping with the enemy.

          Why don't you just let them vote for you?!!
          Be a vegan......eat freedom fries..

          Comment

          • Civic_Zen
            Platinum Poster
            • Jun 2004
            • 1116

            #6
            Originally posted by davetlv
            Originally posted by Civic_Zen
            I hope Kerry wins the popular vote, and Bush wins by the electoral college again. :ROFLMAO:
            Not being an American citizen, I try to keep out of these debates about Bush/Kerry . . . however Civic your comment about Kerry winning the popular vote and Bush winning the electoral college interests me. I guess this is what happened in 2000 with Bush/Gore.

            What i fail to understand is how such a so-called democracy, and it could be any democracy not necessarily just the US, can allow a system where the person who wins the most votes in an election does not win the position? Would appreciate an explaination if there is one from someone!
            The Electoral College is a pretty complicated thing to understand. It was started by America's founding fathers way back when America was established.

            Its based off the population of any given state, and how many electoral votes each state has. Which is based off how many representatives in Congress that state has. I learned about it all in school of course, and I could go into explaining it in detail, but it would take quite a while.

            So instead, I point you to this link http://www.fec.gov/pages/ecmenu2.htm Which should be able to answer any and every question you may have in much greater detail. It gives you a breakdown of exactly what it is, which will still be confusing. So for a true understanding and a Brief History of the Electoral College along with the pro's and con's of it read this http://www.fec.gov/pdf/eleccoll.pdf from that same link.

            The thing is, an election is VERY RARELY won this way, and the last election when it happened with Bush, was one of the few times its ever happened. I think maybe 3-4 times in the history of America. I'd have to look to be sure. But the point is, that certain things need to happen, and it does get very complicated.

            And another interesting fact would be that, throughout history, the democratic party has always supported the Electoral College more then the republican's. This time, it "worked" to their disadvantage and so they started spreading rumors about Bush winning it unfairly, and so on and so forth. They make it seem like the system was manipulated, when in fact, Bush won the election COMPLETELY FAIRLY, and with tools that were established the very day the United States of America was concieved.

            Until you get the full gist of it, all I can tell you is that this system was implemented for a VERY GOOD reason, and IMO, was one of the more brilliant idea's to come from this great nation.
            "The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws." - Tacitus (55-117 A.D.)
            "That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
            - Thomas Jefferson

            Comment

            • mylexicon
              Addiction started
              • Jun 2004
              • 339

              #7
              Originally posted by davetlv
              Originally posted by Civic_Zen
              I hope Kerry wins the popular vote, and Bush wins by the electoral college again. :ROFLMAO:
              Not being an American citizen, I try to keep out of these debates about Bush/Kerry . . . however Civic your comment about Kerry winning the popular vote and Bush winning the electoral college interests me. I guess this is what happened in 2000 with Bush/Gore.

              What i fail to understand is how such a so-called democracy, and it could be any democracy not necessarily just the US, can allow a system where the person who wins the most votes in an election does not win the position? Would appreciate an explaination if there is one from someone!
              Yeah just to add to what Civic said:

              I'm pretty sure Lincoln was the last one elected who captured less than 50%
              vote.....i think. Of course he one popular vote though.

              The reason America has the electoral college is because America is a federacy.
              Hence the "federal government" and the "confederacy" - against federalism.
              That means there are different levels of government each with their own areas
              of sovereignty. Local governments, State governments, and the Federal
              Government. Since the land mass of a state belongs to the people of that
              state. It is important to have the electoral college in order to protect the
              minority vote. Each state always gets 2 electoral votes (one for each Senator)
              and one additional vote for each Representative (reps based on state population)

              Here is a scenario to show how it you can lose popular vote but win electoral
              college.

              California has 10,000 people and has 2 Senators and 14 representatives.
              Then their is 6 small states with 1,300 people each and 1 rep per state.

              Because of their majority in the house California would dictate all policy in the
              House. The president has the power of veto so the only way to check the
              power of California is to make sure that a minority vote president can still
              win.

              If California voted democrat they would score 16 electoral votes. If the
              other six states voted Republican they would score 18 votes.

              The Republican candidate would win even though he lost 7800 votes to 10,000 votes.


              Here is a visual representation of why we have the electoral college.

              Bush won the Red States. As you can see over 70% of the U.S. landmass
              wanted George Bush as President. If Gore had won that would mean 70% of
              the American landmass (probably more actually since land owners are
              overwhelmingly Republican) would be ruled under gov. it didn't support. In
              order to protect the minority interests of people in rural areas we have the
              electoral college
              Be a vegan......eat freedom fries..

              Comment

              • Kobe
                I wish I had an interesting User title
                • Jun 2004
                • 2589

                #8
                note: he won the red state that looks like a wang after tens of thousands of votes were thrown out.
                Beats are my crack.

                Comment

                • mylexicon
                  Addiction started
                  • Jun 2004
                  • 339

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Kobe
                  note: he won the red state that looks like a wang after tens of thousands of votes were thrown out.
                  At least people in our party can vote. Besides the only reason it was a
                  problem is because the major networks showed Florida was won by Gore
                  way before voting was finished. They forgot about the overwhelming Republican
                  support in the Panhanndle and the parts of the state whose polls were
                  still open because they were in the central time zone.

                  You got the recount you wanted, and Federal guidlines mandated that
                  pregnant chads had to be thrown out. If youre gonna hate, hate the Supreme
                  Court. BTW you notice they only did recounts in liberal counties like Dade.
                  The media didn't show up in the conservative areas to make sure people
                  weren't throwing out hanging chads....whether by conspiracy or Supreme Court
                  rule the result would have been the same.
                  Be a vegan......eat freedom fries..

                  Comment

                  • Kobe
                    I wish I had an interesting User title
                    • Jun 2004
                    • 2589

                    #10
                    Oh don't worry, I do HATE the supreme court for that decision. How a conservative state's-rights federal court saw the right to make a decision on that is one of the most baffeling things I've ever witnessed.
                    Beats are my crack.

                    Comment

                    • Civic_Zen
                      Platinum Poster
                      • Jun 2004
                      • 1116

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Kobe
                      Oh don't worry, I do HATE the supreme court for that decision. How a conservative state's-rights federal court saw the right to make a decision on that is one of the most baffeling things I've ever witnessed.
                      Do you care to elaborate? I could just start with the reason's why this was the right decision to be made, and if you are truly so baffled, just assume that its because your misinformed or otherwise.

                      But instead I'll give you a chance to elaborate as to what, exactly, is/was so "baffling" about that particular decision.
                      "The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws." - Tacitus (55-117 A.D.)
                      "That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
                      - Thomas Jefferson

                      Comment

                      • mylexicon
                        Addiction started
                        • Jun 2004
                        • 339

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Kobe
                        Oh don't worry, I do HATE the supreme court for that decision. How a conservative state's-rights federal court saw the right to make a decision on that is one of the most baffeling things I've ever witnessed.
                        I'm sure the entire supreme court procedings are listed on the net somewhere. Lets all have a read shall we?



                        here's the official site

                        harder to navigate though
                        Be a vegan......eat freedom fries..

                        Comment

                        • Kobe
                          I wish I had an interesting User title
                          • Jun 2004
                          • 2589

                          #13
                          I don't need a website, I remeber that decision like yesterday. It was a split decision. Mr. state's rights, Scalia, turned his back on everything he stands for so he could tow the party line.
                          Beats are my crack.

                          Comment

                          • neoee
                            Platinum Poster
                            • Jun 2004
                            • 1266

                            #14
                            We should just place some odds on this thing and start taking bets. What do you guys think?
                            "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." -Benjamin Franklin

                            Comment

                            • delirious
                              Addiction started
                              • Jun 2004
                              • 288

                              #15
                              Re: Reality is unravelling for Bush

                              Originally posted by mylexicon
                              Originally posted by delirious
                              Sidney Blumenthal: Even negative attacks on Kerry no longer seem to be working.
                              Reading a European paper to tell you what to think about American
                              politics is like sleeping with the enemy.

                              Why don't you just let them vote for you?!!
                              No, I just thought it was an interesting piece by an American.

                              Originally posted by Civic_Zen
                              To what you said about Kerry winning. Not a single political analyst since Kerry has become the democratic nominee, has predicted Kerry will win. In fact, everyone knows that Bush will win.
                              I was referring to the national vote, not the electoral college vote. I won't try predict that :wink:

                              I don't mind sticking my neck out. It'll be interesting to see what happens

                              1) You don't hear from many Gore voters, "I voted for Gore in 2000, but I really like the job Bush has done, I think I'll vote for him in 2004."

                              2) Therefore, the campaign that draws more new voters out in 2004 will win.

                              3) It's hard to think that the Bush campaign can draw out more new voters than the Kerry campaign (as Bush has alienated so many people and so many will come out to vote for Kerry just to get rid of him).
                              James Carville

                              Looking at the history of presidential races is one approach. No challenger has ever done as well against an elected incumbent at this point in the cycle. Every incumbent who won re-election had a double-digit lead over his challenger at this stage. Lyndon Johnson led Barry Goldwater by 59 points in the spring of '64. Bill Clinton led Bob Dole by 14 points, Ronald Reagan led Walter Mondale by 17 and Richard Nixon was ahead of George McGovern by 11.

                              Of course, some incumbents who went on to lose were doing better than Bush is today. The president's father led Clinton by six points at this stage but was beaten anyway.

                              Comment

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