This Article Needed it's own Thread

[Illuminate]

Apologies for wasting precious thread space, but this I thought expressed my views to 'comercial' above ground EDM:

Seth Troxler: | Thump

[nick007]

Re: This Article Needed it's own Thread

Good read

[nelinho]

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Thanks for post.

delete the part about being sorry for posting it too.

[diegoff]

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nice one!

[leest3]

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Great read, thank you!

[unrecogniseduser]

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he's right overall, but there's some bullshit in that piece too imo. For example, a girl snorting coke off another girls pussy is horrible at a festival, but cool in a club? Not sure about that. As for the rimming in Berghain...

[feather]

Re: This Article Needed it's own Thread

That’s not clubbing, that’s a concert of cunts.

Can't disagree with the article.

[Huggie Smiles]

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concert of cunts. indeed.

HOWEVER, the fact that tens of thousands ? hundreds of thousands? of people go and enjoy it - and keep going back for more, seems like the masses have spoken. Just cos you/we/I don't enjoy it doesn't mean they shouldn't.

and i refer you to this vid if you need more:

SNL hits up Davvincii - when will the bass drop ?

[feather]

Re: This Article Needed it's own Thread

HOWEVER, the fact that tens of thousands ? hundreds of thousands? of people go and enjoy it - and keep going back for more, seems like the masses have spoken.

Well that's really the law of mediocrity and the lowest denominator

[♫♫♫♫♫♫]

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What were the raves in the UK in the 80's and 90's? Festivals with poor soundsystems and thousands of people turning up every weekend from all round the country.

[♫♫♫♫♫♫]

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Now people consider a “good event” something that’s really packed with bodies and “energy”: energy-packed-extreme! That’s not clubbing, man.

Seem to remember that more 20 years ago than now. Sasha & Digweed at Fabric 2001 anyone!

[♫♫♫♫♫♫]

Re: This Article Needed it's own Thread

Just reading Seth's biography

Troxler went to underground techno raves, and shortly after threw his own underground parties - notably booking Magda to play for him when he was only fifteen years old

I've been to loads of clubs, never seen one where they employ 15 year old boys.

[floridaorange]

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I agree with a lot of it...but there was a comment about entry level electronic music listeners being the main attendees of these music festivals and that's basically what it is. Overall I think the scene has gotten what it's asked for. I mean the majority of clubs are simply open to make $$$, and do so by selling alcohol. So the festivals have figured out how to do that without a (soon to close anyway) brick and mortar operation like a club, so what, it's a for profit world we live in, is it not?Why compare apples and oranges anyway? I do sympathize though with dj's who have been at it for years and have to cater to this particular newer generation... I think most of the kids nowadays go to festivals not to meet new people but to hang out with their friends... same with clubs mostly. People don't need to go to a club to meet new people anymore, social networking has kind of mitigated all of that now. So my opinion is that it's just different now. The marketers have figured out how to sell the perceived cool factor of going out, made is stale, safe and full of colorful cake, rides and glow sticks. It's no longer underground, and that's that. The larger collective conscious is turning up (see what I did there) at these huge festivals, not packing clubs to hear the newest tunes, for the most part. But if Troxler was really serious about his distaste than why even go to them? Why not carve out a tour that is comprised only of "underground" intellectual clubs where bears are eating assholes? The whole rave culture thing was counter-culture for so long, I mean in a way the whole movement kind of succeeded at becoming somewhat mainstream, even though the music is different, fuck at least it's still music. People going out and having a good time listening to music is wrong? Fuck you pretentious anti-pretintious - underground - anti commercial purists ... He should spend more time trying to find the beauty in the madness vs. finding the idiocy, which btw takes more effort and open-mindedness. Can't say I would necessarily be able to after traveling all the time and seeing all the shit Troxler describes, but then again I didn't sign up to be a DJ .

[floridaorange]

Re: This Article Needed it's own Thread

concert of cunts. indeed.

HOWEVER, the fact that tens of thousands ? hundreds of thousands? of people go and enjoy it - and keep going back for more, seems like the masses have spoken. Just cos you/we/I don't enjoy it doesn't mean they shouldn't.

^Agreed -



Additionally, John Digweed performs at EDC... so if one of these cunts leaves having heard Digweed for the first time - that's a good thing, right?

[feather]

Re: This Article Needed it's own Thread

I think maybe it's not so much whether people are having fun or enjoying the music. Given enough alcohol/drugs/company you can have fun anywhere whether it's at a festival or club or stadium or football or home.

I think the contention here is what people are getting out of it beyond the superficiality of fun.

Which some of you might think is an elitist / snobbish attitude, cos sure, who are we to complain if people are enjoying themselves.

If people are into this kinda fun, that's to their advantage and loss as I see it. It's like comparing a Michael Bay Transformers movie to some other sci-fi film that I would find intellectually stimulating.

And I do find electronic music intellectually or conceptually stimulating.

I think most of us around here have been listening to this stuff long enough, have stepped into a record shop or at least gone somewhere to listen to a single, have some rudimentary appreciation for a good track (subjectively) and a DJ's technical prowess at mixing together them tracks and programming a set.

In a club we have the opportunity to listen deeper. Does that sound elitist or snobbish? It's no different from going to a classical concert and seeing a conductor at work and sifting through the layers of instruments, except I'm dancing on the floor and I can share it with friends.

Can I do that at a festival? No fucking way.

And another thing that I find distasteful is the lack of etiquette. Sorry but back in the day at 'raves', whether it was PLUR or good pills, people had respect and it was generally a cordial if not warm environment. People looked out for others. We understood that we're there to have fun and enjoy the music, and we respected each other's personal space and give each other room to dance. We all felt like we belonged to something on the floor and we were there for the same thing.

At the tail end of my raving days it's like the whole alcohol/coke vibe has seeped in, plus seeing underaged kids wasted falling over themselves is never a good sight.

So what if they get an introduction to EDM or listen to Digweed for their very first time? Does that really make an impact or difference?

While I can't possibly fault festival-goers enjoying themselves since I've been there done that, Troxler brings up a valid point of what do they get out of it and what kinda EDM fans are these festivals breeding?

I don't want to sound like I'm fighting for a cause here 'cos there isn't one, I don't expect to create a movement or change things. But I have a vastly different idea of 'enjoyment' vs a bunch of assholes getting wasted at festivals.