michael moore cant handle his own medicine

[el presidente Highsteppa]

so fuck me off.

You don't have to ask me twice.

[BeachBum]

ok. sorry. didn't read if anyone replied to me.. but..

i'm just really tired of this whole thing.. so sorry if i sounded pissy.
that wasn't what i was trying to get across.

i know shitloads about what is going on. and it just frustrating when others don't see the issues at hand.

i just am an annoying VERY VERY LIBERAL person who thinks of HUMANKIND.
unfortunately i know this is wrong to do, but its the way i live. so fuck me off.

I feel ya sista...I think the republicans have made more of a hipocrasy out of this film then anyone else...I mean come on...I wouldn't have even known the film existed if the conservative media and our conservative national party hadn't made it such a big deal. It is their incessant rambling and crying that makes me want to see this film even more.

[unrecogniseduser]

theres a hell of a lot of writing in this thread I only got through the first 4 posts...sorry

[Stu]

BeachBumAs far as Michael Moore being a stupid white man...well that is ludicrous. A brilliant movie / documentary maker, a well out spoken literary genious maybe, but a stupid white man...come on the guy is a marketing genius.

You can't be serious, its a take off of the title of his own book, its accusing him of being a hypocrite. He doesn't make documentaries anyway, he makes mockumentaries, a movie made to look like a documentary but is not entirely comprised of facts. Docos can be biased but that doesn't mean you manufacture truths to try and get your point across.

BeachBumI believe the American people are smart enough to know that his movie Farenheit 911 has some factual and some fictional falocies involved with the making of this film...but as he stated...it was not based on a political agenda. It was to make a great selling docu-drama at the movie theatres. The man is about making money...that is what he gets paid to do. He never states that his film is based on 100% truth, but all of his quotes and taped conversations of President Bush and everything else are factual. They may have been taken out of context, but they were said.

The entire point of his movies are that the American people AREN'T smart enough, they need these things pointed out to them and he knows he can feed them whatever he wants and they will believe it... and most have.
The movie is presented as a documentary on non-fiction issues, he shouldn't have to say that its 100% truth as its automatically assumed. He should be forced to announce at the start of his films that some parts have been falsified and manufactured. He's presenting things as fact on events that have actually happened. These comments weren't taken out of context, they were edited to construct speaches that were never made. If you think that he's just doing this for the money then that completely nullifies the entire message he presents.

BeachBumIf Mr. Moore's documentary does nothing more than get the American people off their asses and get them involed in their own government and make them realize that the politicians work for the people, not for themselves or their own political agenda, and make the american public realize that we must hold all politicians accountable for their decisions and actions, then this film has been a success.

But it does the absolute opposite, it completely destroys any miniscule faith that people had left in the political system. Its going to make people believe that their vote matters even less because no matter who they vote for its still going to end badly. The US needs to make voting compulsory so the people who don't want to vote because they don't believe it will make a difference will make it known about the dissent amongst the people. Moore's movies do not instill any confidence in any part of the system, it doesn't offer a solution.

el presidente HighsteppaOnly an idiot will play the stats game, since reports and sources are far, wide and contradictory to say the least

Then why does Moore use them so liberally?

el presidente HighsteppaAnd CNN used Desert Storm Gulf War footage of Iraqis "celebrating in the streets" when the planes hit the world trade centre. It was recycled footage and CNN quietly issued an apology for it. A fuck of a lot more newsfootage that we see on television is recycled and stock footage than we care to know, partly because the sensationalism of the media is what earns it its ratings and therefore its sponsors and advertisment dollars.

On what planet does that justify Moore's methods? CNN used footage of people celebrating to create an incorrect impression, it was recycled and it was wrong. That still isn't at the level of merging speaches to create something completely new.

el presidente HighsteppaWhile this does mean that Moore is sinking to a level of his detractors and the people that he fights against, it's nice to see someone that will take the fight to their level, and work the editing room to his advantage to prove his point.

Bullshit, if he is going to call someone out then he needs to take the higher ground. If he is making accusations towards people because of their actions then sinking to their level makes him a hypocrite. He is using the methods he is preaching against.

BeachBumI guess you have still missed Moore's point...it is not about total facts or total fallocies

That may be the case but thats not how he presents it



I don't particularly like George Dubbya, I think the US (even the world) is a much worse place since he came into power. He may well be remembered as one of the worst US presidents in history. What I dislike is Moore's method. I realise that his controversy has created publicity but I think that if you simply scratch on the surface then he loses all credibility and it destroys his message. I say if you are going to preach then... 1) offer a realistic alternative/solution & 2) get your message across without compromising it.
Reading through a couple of comments in this thread the left really lets itself down on its blind beliefs. Its always happy to tell you whats wrong but it rarely will offer a realistic solution or alternative.[/quote]

[Balanc3]

Michael Moores point is to make $$$millions off of the victims of Columbine and 9/11 while they sit back and get nothing. Read some of what the kids from Bowling for Columbine think of Michael Moore now.

[mylexicon]

He should be forced to announce at the start of his films that some parts have been falsified and manufactured.

At the beginning of all of his movies it should say: "This documentary
is based on a true story"

[CHiEF_N]

moore uses only the interviews and words he can to prove his point. he leaves out everything/everyone that goes against what he is trying to do.

more than half his material is staged(proven i.e. the whole bank scene from bowling [www.bowlingforthetruth.com])

the other half is peiced together snippets, like the scene where he claims that charlton heston held rallies in denver after the killings in columbine. actually the NRA cancelled all events outside of a meeting for the voters of the NRA that was mandated by federal law for all nonprofit agencies.

hethen goes on to try and show the charlton heston speeck with the , obviously stupid remark "from my cold dead hands". but the truth is he cut 4 different speeches and peiced together different parts. that is PROVEN by the fact that all of a sudden heston is in a different colored suit, in front of a different backround, and on a different podium.
there is a ton more evidence out there, you just need to look for it, what he claims to be truths are more often than not, proven to be staged and post edited.

listen i am not some pro war loony conservative, nor am i a bleedin heart liberal, but do all the research before you trust a guy who makes stupid remarks for personal gain.

i would like to see a "common sense party" rather than the stupid bi-partisan shit that exists today.

You missed the point of the entire "Bowling For Columbine" documentary. Moore regardless of some staging, i.e. the bank scene or Heston, was trying to get a point across concerning the U.S. His point that you obviously missed is that there is something very wrong with the way our country operates. The statistical figure comparison between countries on violent gun related deaths wasn't fabricated. If that didn't hit you on your forehead then nothing ever will related to this topic. Our country was founded on violence and still thrives on it. Open your eyes!

[mylexicon]

If that didn't hit you on your forehead then nothing ever will related to this topic. Our country was founded on violence and still thrives on it. Open your eyes!

The only reason we have any violence in our
country is because we have a romance affair with outlaw individuality
and because we don't have an assimilated population

In America people have ideas ranging from communism to complete anarchy
and every ideology has a relatively strong following. In addition, we have an
enormously strong since of individuality. The American government cannot
possibly hope to account for all of the ideologies we have in this country, and
our obsession with individuality means that there is constant person to person conflict as well.

Furthermore, Americans aren't taught to work through their problems and overcome adversity.
"No, that's some type of ideological bullshit that sucessful people say to
control the opressed people. Hollywood even told me so, they said
everything that makes you great you are just born with....like good looks
and acting talent and money" America knows the real way to solve your problems
is to moan and bitch until you get attention, the same way a baby cries for its
bottle. A poor kid sees moore on tv talking about how they have been cheated
by the rich man.....that's it Michael don't actually teach them things they might
be able to apply in life....teach them to hate.

I think you missed the point of Bowling for Columbine.

Bowling for Columbine in 30 seconds:
"The media has been scaring you for profit. They have been teaching you
that minorities are evil and that guns are bad and all the while they have
been exploiting your fear for their personal gain! Well i've got something
to say to those media scum who have been manipulating American minds..............
You were right all along....i mean look at these kids from Columbine...bullet
holes here and here. Tell us your story boys. Boys, blame Target; it's their
fault. Let's go downtown and raise hell since i never got to when i was in high
school. Look at Charlton Heston can you imagine this insensitive bastard running
around with a gun?.... its fucking scary. With people like him around who needs
enemies huh boys? The End. Wasn't that fucking brilliant?!"

I agree that America is very violent.....or is it? Micheal told me it wasn't....but
then......he sorta.....told me it was........wait did the media blow it out of
proportion, or did columbine really happen?......didn't Charlton Heston end
up giving guns to the bad kids......or was that Target? I don't even know anymore,
but God Bless Michael Moore he taught me so much in such a short
time........he's the man. Vote Kerry

[thesightless]

dont vote kerry, vote for a system where every citizen can actually vote for every issue. not some dumshit who talks out his ass to get ppl he/she doesnt care about to get them a guaranteed job for a few years

PS if kerry wins, we will be attacked. badly.

[mylexicon]

Did you read my post or no?

[brakada]

Did you read my post or no?

I did.

But found nothing interesting. Sounds like fighting fire with fire. You have a very fine "MM republican" style in seeing things.

IMO everyone is giving him too much credit (the liberals and the conservatives). He is just a writer / director for god's sake, not a prophet, angel or a satan (depends which side you're on).

Anything that comes out of Hollywood can't be treated too seriously or a bible. There are some facts and there is some fiction, but who really cares. Can't we and don't we have the right to decide on our own? I think he is a great writer and a great director, who has a lot of valid points, but exagurates in everything. And that's all.

[krelm]

Re: michael moore cant handle his own medicine

from the original article......

After all, Moore and other members of the left-wing thought police can't bear a commitment to diversity of ideas.

OK, this is the sort of shit that irks me. I'm sure the author has a lot of valid points, but they completely lose it when they throw in cheap partisan insults like that. If you want to criticize Michael Moore, fine - there is *more* than enough to get him on. But statements like this show that their criticisms are not at all separate from their obvious political agenda.

It sort of reminds me of a big fat guy that makes "documentaries"....

Makes me wonder if the book in question will be similar to Moore's works.

The final 3 quotes from prominent liberals critisizing Moore even go to show that these "liberal thought police" don't even fully support the guy.

If people want to show that Moore is full of shit, for fuck's sake, don't use his methods - no political flag-waving, no smart-ass cheap shots. Put the facts out there on the table - that is going to convince a lot more left-leaning people (although some people will love him no matter what). Otherwise, you are just preaching to the crowd.

[cosmo]

Re: michael moore cant handle his own medicine

The final 3 quotes from prominent liberals critisizing Moore even go to show that these "liberal thought police" don't even fully support the guy.

There is a difference between the left, and the far-left. In this case, the left criticized the far left.

Put the facts out there on the table

I think we've already dont that. His movie has been minimized to horse sh*t.

[mylexicon]

IMO everyone is giving him too much credit (the liberals and the conservatives). He is just a writer / director for god's sake, not a prophet, angel or a satan (depends which side you're on).

I agree 100% That's why all of us are so pissed at him. Millions it
seems (if you believe the media reporting ) have seen moore's film
and all of them are walking out of the theatre with a raging boner for Kerry.

Its horrible. He gets huge standing ovations from the goddam French and
lots of other people in Europe like him to. I'm not the one who's is swept
away by him. But i have do have a great respect even borderline fear for what
he can do to the average simpleton.
MICHAEL MOORE IS A FUCKING ASSMUNCH

[brakada]

I agree 100% That's why all of us are so pissed at him. Millions it
seems (if you believe the media reporting ) have seen moore's film
and all of them are walking out of the theatre with a raging boner for Kerry.

Its horrible. He gets huge standing ovations from the goddam French and
lots of other people in Europe like him to. I'm not the one who's is swept
away by him. But i have do have a great respect even borderline fear for what
he can do to the average simpleton.
MICHAEL MOORE IS A FUCKING ASSMUNCH

Are we hiding something again?

Well that doesn't say anything good about american intelligence, does it? As for the French and the Europeans it's a bit different. They don't vote in the States, it just perfectly fits their visions of the Bush administration.