Sentaor Dick Durbin comments

[superdave]

I think it's irresponsible that he compares American soldiers to Nazis, Russians in the Gulag, and Pol Pot in Cambodia. The prisoners in Guantanamo were forced to listen to rap music in rooms with no air conditioning as torture. I don't see this as being the torture I would expect in a concentration camp run by Nazi Germany.

[face]

Re: Sentaor Dick Durbin comments

we spend a lot of money on our "psych" divisions.

you'd be surprised what one would confess to after 36 hours of christina aguilera's "genie in a bottle."

[robprunzit]

Re: Sentaor Dick Durbin comments

In the 60's Jane Fonda went to Vietnam, sat on a enemy tank, viewed American prisoners of war, and took sides with the enemy during a time of war. It has now been shown how our prisoners were battered more after her visit, and the enemy was pumped up.

This Durbin has the right to say whatever he wants, and be free to it, but he and the others may cause much more calamity in the Mid East.

The enemy may be uplifted, as they read his comments in the Al-jizera (sp) propaganda newspapers. People may die because of his words.

[Morgan]

Mental torture can be as damaging if not more damaging than pysical abuse. It's wrong imo for people to be captured and held without trial in what is basically a concentration camp. Charge them or release them.

[robprunzit]

Re: Sentaor Dick Durbin comments

Did those fighters (now held in the prison camp in Cuba), did they follow the normal way wars are fought. Like wearing uniforms, or not harming innocent people, ie, children, and women. Could they care less who they kill, or how terrible that is for the ones who remain to deal with their family members death?

Have you forgotten who they are, where they were caught, what they were doing when they caught,
1. Fighting for the Taliban in Afghanistan.
2. On the battle field, or hiding in Taliban bunkers.
3. Fighting to kill the coalition of many nations, which came in to find Bin Laden and take out the Taliban which supported and helped fund his movement.

Why do so many people simply want to support these people? Is our political persuasions so important that we would stand up for murderers, so that our opinions are pushed to the front?

Ok, lets just let them all go.

[HoneyBearKelly]

Re: Sentaor Dick Durbin comments

Let's put a moratorium on comparing anything to Nazis.
Neither side should use it.
That being said Durbin didn't.
Here are his words:

When you read some of the graphic descriptions of what has occurred here -- I almost hesitate to put them in the record, and yet they have to be added to this debate. Let me read to you what one FBI agent saw. And I quote from his report: On a couple of occasions, I entered interview rooms to find a detainee chained hand and foot in a fetal position to the floor, with no chair, food or water. Most times they urinated or defecated on themselves, and had been left there for 18-24 hours or more. On one occasion, the air conditioning had been turned down so far and the temperature was so cold in the room, that the barefooted detainee was shaking with cold....On another occasion, the [air conditioner] had been turned off, making the temperature in the unventilated room well over 100 degrees. The detainee was almost unconscious on the floor, with a pile of hair next to him. He had apparently been literally pulling his hair out throughout the night. On another occasion, not only was the temperature unbearably hot, but extremely loud rap music was being played in the room, and had been since the day before, with the detainee chained hand and foot in the fetal position on the tile floor.
If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control, you would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime -- Pol Pot or others -- that had no concern for human beings. Sadly, that is not the case. This was the action of Americans in the treatment of their prisoners.

Senator Durbin was calling for more congressional oversight of Guantanamo and for the prisoners to have the right to challenge their detentions.
What happened to innocent until proved guilty?
If the United States doesn't follow it's own rule of law how can we complain when others don't?

[BSully828]

Re: Sentaor Dick Durbin comments

If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control, you would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime -- Pol Pot or others -- that had no concern for human beings. Sadly, that is not the case. This was the action of Americans in the treatment of their prisoners.

But that's the comparison right there - Durbin, in the quote you have posted, maintains that the acts of American soldiers are congruent with the acts of those deplorable organizations of days past. He's basically saying that if you took what is happening at Gitmo and what happened at Auschwitz and put them side by side they would look to be the work of the same hand.

"If I read this to you ... you would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime"

We may be arguing semantics, but I read those words and I see Durbin attempting to connect the two.

I do agree with the fact that this whole operation down in Cuba is creating more questions than answers. The tactics involved in these types of interrogations rarely lead to valid tips, and even if these prisoners were ready to confess - what kind of intelligence would they be offering? Some have been locked up for 2 years now; I doubt they still have their finger on the pulse of terrorist activity.

[pacific493]

Re: Sentaor Dick Durbin comments

So, if not the Nazis, Pol Pot or the Soviets, who would you say is an apt comparison for treatment described in the FBI memo? Invoking the Nazis, Khmer Rouge or Soviets may be a bit over the top, but some of the treatment described is a bit extreme.

[thesightless]

Re: Sentaor Dick Durbin comments

WHY THE FUCK ARE WE CRYONG ABOUT THE TREATMENT OF PEOPLE WHO WOULD KILL US IF GIVEN THE OPPURTUNITY TO DO IT WITHOUT REPRECUSSIONS.

SOMEONE TELL DURBIN TO REACH INTO HIS ASSHOLE AND PULL HIS HEAD OUT OF IT.

maybe his kid needs to be become a POW in a place like Iraq and then his tune will change a bit after he finds out that they whipped, drugged, beat the kid.

[superdave]

Re: Sentaor Dick Durbin comments

I heard Senator John McCain say that an apology was in order from Durbin for his comments comparing Nazis, Gulags, and Pol Pot to Gitmo. I heard others in governement are also wanting an apology from Durbin too.

The operation in Gitmo has about 500 plus prisoners. Not the millions of Jews that died in concentration camps by being gased and other horrible atrocities. Also, 2 million people were killed by Pol Pot. So, let's quick making silly and outrageous comparisons. To continue with comparisons, insults the many families and dead killed by these horrible regimes.

[robprunzit]

Re: Sentaor Dick Durbin comments

First.
Well, Durbin is an idiot, and his comments will hurt him ... hopefully. But, we Americans forget what happens after a couple months, and he doesnt have campaigns for several years, so if he sits back and zips his lip, this will all go away FOR HIM.

But for THE WORLD, his words have seriously damaged how middle eastern people look at the effort. That is where Durbin becomes an IDIOT. He only wanted to hurt the Republican basis for not giving a timeline to get out of Iraq, and he did not take into account his words would affect the safety of our troops, and the trust from people in the region.

We all know his words where WRONG, without question, but the middle eastern people don't know that. Even if he did offer an apology, the damage has been done, and Al Jazira (sp) media would most likely never play his recant to the population over there.

Second.
The prisoners being held were caught in the bunkers where only the fighters were hanging out or hiding from the bombings. There isn't a question about their involvement ... so guilt is not the question, but most people forgot that already, or just don't remember the facts. REMEMBER THE FACTS.

If you want to compare something, think about how Japanese Americans in America were rounded up and held in camps during WW2. They actually were innocent, but held 'just in case' of allegiance to their country of birth.

These guys in Cuba camps were only lucky they didn't die in battle trying to kill coalition soldiers, and we feel sorry for them.

[pacific493]

Re: Sentaor Dick Durbin comments

WHY THE FUCK ARE WE CRYONG ABOUT THE TREATMENT OF PEOPLE WHO WOULD KILL US IF GIVEN THE OPPURTUNITY TO DO IT WITHOUT REPRECUSSIONS.

Because that is what separates US from THEM. Once we start to say some level of mistreatment is ok, where do we draw the line.

maybe his kid needs to be become a POW in a place like Iraq and then his tune will change a bit after he finds out that they whipped, drugged, beat the kid.

Have you ever thought that all of this Gitmo crap might actually make it worse for American POWs???

[robprunzit]

Re: Sentaor Dick Durbin comments

Make it worse for American POWs. What makes it worse are the comments Durbin made a last week. WAKE UP!

This is a War!

By the way, the GITMO POW'S are eating probably better than you. They are served daily the best dishes, lemon chicken, etc.

Also, a few months back about 200 detainees were released. Already 12 of those guys have been picked up again.

Why cant you people see the Big Picture? War isn't pretty, it isn't fun, it's not nice. But it is war, and those detainees are not having their fingernails pulled off, or their tongues cut out.

[toasty]

Re: Sentaor Dick Durbin comments

This is a War!

Well, it is on the battlefield. As for the POWs, the war is over. They're done fighting, whether they like it or not. I think people frequently confuse what is going on on the battlefield with what goes on in the prisons.

By the way, the GITMO POW'S are eating probably better than you. They are served daily the best dishes, lemon chicken, etc.

I've got to say, I don't think this is necessary. They ought to be getting sustenance and that's about it. I do think it is ridiculous, though, that trotting out the menu is the best defense torture apologists have. "Sure, we're beating them, we're chaining them naked to the floor, we're setting dogs on them -- but at the end of the day, they're getting rice pilaf and apple cobbler, so it all evens out.

That's obviously a bit of an exaggeration, but the point is that doing one or two things right, or even exceptionally well, doesn't excuse other bad acts.

Also, a few months back about 200 detainees were released. Already 12 of those guys have been picked up again.

Why the hell were they released? Bush talks about it like those that are critical of what is going on in Gitmo would like to see these prisoners released. I wouldn't. If they are American citizens, I would like to see them charged and tried in a prompt fashion, as is their Constitutional right. If they're found guilty, we can execute them for all I care. That's what due process is all about. What I don't want to see is them being tortured, because America is supposed to be above that.

[thesightless]

Re: Sentaor Dick Durbin comments

12 have been picked up again but over two dozen have died in combat with us.