Mother of dead marine has her say about Farenheight 9/11

[delirious]

FLINT - At the gym and at church, Lila Lipscomb draws extra attention that makes her realize just how hot "Fahrenheit 9/11" is.

The Flint woman is one of the "stars" of Michael Moore's new film, the first documentary to hold the No. 1 spot at the box office.

Some reviewers have said footage of Lipscomb talking about the death of her son, Army Sgt. Michael Pedersen, is the most compelling part of the movie. Pedersen, 26, died when his Black Hawk helicopter crashed April 2, 2003, in Iraq.

"Wherever I go now ... the looks on people's faces are kind of like, 'Is that her?' " Lipscomb said.

On Sunday, a woman at Lipscomb's gym recognized her from the movie.

On the same day, a friend from church told Lipscomb she had just returned from Chicago and encountered someone who had seen the movie. When she found out the woman was from Flint, she asked her if she knew the Flint mom in the movie. "She asked her to give me a hug for her," Lipscomb said.

Lipscomb, who turned 50 on Sunday, said she doesn't mind having her emotions in the spotlight. She's happy about how the movie turned out.

"Fahrenheit 9/11" shows her crying as she remembers her son, reads the last letter he sent her and visits the White House to try to find closure.

"At the time of the sharing, I didn't even think about (people seeing it on movie screens) because the pain is so raw in my soul that it's just natural, when given the opportunity, to talk about it. It just comes out.

"I feel so blessed to be able to have my gut-wrenching feelings be able to touch so many people. Literally, people are calling my home and giving me messages. Men - men - are telling me how when they left the movie they were just sobbing."

Lipscomb has been flooded with so many media calls that publicists for the movie are handling most of the requests. She was interviewed by People magazine and USA Today.

Moore's production company contacted Lipscomb in January and came to Flint to interview her in February.

That's when she read the letter - in which Pedersen criticizes President Bush for attacking Iraq.

"I volunteered it," she said. "I shared the information that one of the reasons I was so angry and confused was the last letter from my son. And Michael (Moore) asked if he could see it, and I said, 'Absolutely.' "

"Fahrenheit 9/11" shows Lipscomb tearfully reading the letter as she sits on the couch with her husband, Howard.

There are no extra takes when you're being filmed for a documentary, she said, although Moore did edit out some of the letter-reading.

"It wasn't staged at all," she said. "It was just a continuous flowing."

Lipscomb has seen the movie three times - twice at private screenings and once at Showcase Cinemas West in Flint Township.

On Friday, she and other Flint residents featured in the movie got to see it - "However, I didn't see the recruiters," she said with a laugh, referring to military recruiters portrayed in an unflattering fashion in the movie.

She plans to see it again. "Every time I watch it, I see something different."

Lipscomb thinks she knows why so many viewers of the movie have been especially touched by her story.

"I believe it's because it puts a heart to the war," she said. "Because we've been so desensitized through the media ever since the war began. You'll continuously show me beheaded people, but you won't even show my son coming home being honored through Dover Air Force Base.

"I'm not just representing my son. It's not just about me, and it's not about my son. It's about the over 850 other families - not counting the thousands and thousands of wounded and not counting the tens of thousands of Iraqis that have been killed and wounded."

http://www.mlive.com/news/fljournal/index.ssf?/base/news-22/1088522569246600.xml

[Civic_Zen]

Re: Mother of dead marine has her say about Farenheight 9/11

Some reviewers have said footage of Lipscomb talking about the death of her son, Army Sgt. Michael Pedersen, is the most compelling part of the movie. Pedersen, 26, died when his Black Hawk helicopter crashed April 2, 2003, in Iraq.

The most compelling part??

Any mother, fresh off of losing their son or daughter in such an instance would feel the same way. Someone else said it on one of the other threads. She was over emotional because of the time frame. And she would become bitter, obviously, toward the circumstances her son died.

If I decided to join the military, I would know what is at stake. And it would be my choice, as it was his. If he was naive enough to not realize what was at stake, well ..... that's the fault of his parents IMO.

[delirious]

Re: Mother of dead marine has her say about Farenheight 9/11

Some reviewers have said footage of Lipscomb talking about the death of her son, Army Sgt. Michael Pedersen, is the most compelling part of the movie. Pedersen, 26, died when his Black Hawk helicopter crashed April 2, 2003, in Iraq.

The most compelling part??

Any mother, fresh off of losing their son or daughter in such an instance would feel the same way. Someone else said it on one of the other threads. She was over emotional because of the time frame. And she would become bitter, obviously, toward the circumstances her son died.

If I decided to join the military, I would know what is at stake. And it would be my choice, as it was his. If he was naive enough to not realize what was at stake, well ..... that's the fault of his parents IMO.

When you join the military you don't expect to fight illegal wars in lands where the population clearly doesn't want you, while getting your pay cut, under false pretences.

In the latest surveys of soldiers serving in Iraq, over half of them wouldn't re-enlist and over 40% are suicidal. But, yeah... they're just naive

[Civic_Zen]

Re: Mother of dead marine has her say about Farenheight 9/11

In the latest surveys of soldiers serving in Iraq, over half of them wouldn't re-enlist and over 40% are suicidal. But, yeah... they're just naive

Why don't you post where you got that crap from? Do you know any American's seving in the war? Because I happen to know many of them personally. I can guarentee those statistics are completely false.

Why do you have to blatently lie to make a point?? Oh yea, cause your hero is Michael Moore.

[delirious]

Re: Mother of dead marine has her say about Farenheight 9/11

In the latest surveys of soldiers serving in Iraq, over half of them wouldn't re-enlist and over 40% are suicidal. But, yeah... they're just naive

Why don't you post where you got that crap from?

Sorry, I assumed you already knew about that.

A broad survey of U.S. troops in Iraq by a Pentagon-funded newspaper found that half of those questioned described their unit's morale as low and their training as insufficient, and said they do not plan to reenlist.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A32521-2003Oct15?language=printer

U.S. soldiers in Iraq are killing themselves at an unusually high rate, despite the work of special teams sent to help troops deal with combat stress, the Pentagon's top doctor said Wednesday.

Meanwhile, about 2,500 soldiers who have returned from the war on terrorism are having to wait for medical care at bases in the United States, said Dr. William Winkenwerder, assistant secretary of defense for health affairs. The problem of troops on "medical extension" is likely to get worse as the Pentagon rotates hundreds of thousands of troops into and out of Iraq this spring, he said.

Both situations illustrate the stresses placed on the troops and the military's health system by the war in Iraq.

Suicide has become such a pressing issue that the Army sent an assessment team to Iraq late last year to see if anything more could be done to prevent troops from killing themselves. The Army also began offering more counseling to returning troops after several soldiers at Fort Bragg, N.C., killed their wives and themselves after returning home from the war.

http://lawgeek.typepad.com/lawgeek/2004/01/us_soldiers_sui.html

Need more sources?

Do you know any American's seving in the war? Because I happen to know many of them personally.

I wish them all the best and hope they come home safely.

I can guarentee those statistics are completely false.

Why do you have to blatently lie to make a point?? Oh yea, cause your hero is Michael Moore.

How can you guarantee that they're false?
Where did I lie to make a point?

[Civic_Zen]

Saying that 50% wont reinlist means absolutely nothing. That isn't even relevant at all, even though that stat was accurate, it wasn't the one I was questioning.

And then there is this.

Some military experts pointed to good news for the administration in the survey. Military historian Eliot Cohen, who serves on a Pentagon advisory panel, noted that the proportion that said the war was worthwhile -- 67 percent -- and the proportion of troops that said they have a clearly defined mission -- 64 percent -- are "amazingly high." He added that complaints are typical. "American troops have a God-given right and tradition of grumbling," he said.

67% Feel the war in Iraq is worth while. That is pretty good.
And then from your second link.

Winkenwerder said the military has documented 21 suicides during 2003 among troops involved in the Iraq war. Eighteen of those were Army soldiers, he said.

Yea, I guess 18 people is 40% of the US military now huh?? So where did you get this 40% want to commit suicide from?? That stat is just rediculous, I can't believe you didn't think so when you wrote it, but whatever.

Lastly, let me reitterate the fact that I know people, PERSONALLY, that are US Soldiers, and that are part of the 67% that feel they are doing something worth while. There are bound to be some, 18 people, that commit suicide, but those people had mental problems, obviously.

[delirious]

They are saying that its unlikely they will continue to serve in the military. Well DUH.... Most people don't go except to get funding for college, which is a 2-4 year term. Why would anyone stay after they faught a war??

I've been trying to find a link to the survey with the 40% figure but can't find it so I admit the figure could be wrong. My apologies. However, any way you look at it, the rate is high (hence the special assessment teams).

But thanks for agreeing with my point that a lot of soldiers won't enlist.

And then there is this. 67% Feel the war in Iraq is worth while. That is pretty good.

That has nothing to do with your argument that soldiers should've been expected to know what was involved with signing up for the army.

Yea, I guess 18 people is 40% of the US military now huh??

And yet, you have the nerve to ask where it is that you lied.

There's a difference between people actually commiting suicide and being suicidal.

Lastly, let me reitterate the fact that I know people, PERSONALLY, that are US Soldiers, and that are part of the 67% that feel they are doing something worth while. There are bound to be some, 18 people, that commit suicide, but those people had mental problems, obviously.

You've already told me you know people who are serving. Are you implying that it makes you biased in these debates because you're doing your duty and "defending their valour?"

If he was naive enough to not realize what was at stake, well ..... that's the fault of his parents IMO.

Please explain how, if you enlisted in 1999, you would've known what was at stake when joining the military. Are people naive to not have known 9/11 would happen which would radically reshape the world's military balance?

[Civic_Zen]

You've already told me you know people who are serving. Are you implying that it makes you biased in these debates because you're doing your duty and "defending their valour?"

It makes me more knowledgable, considering I receive letters written by actual people, not polls that were conducted by biased newspapers.

Please explain how, if you enlisted in 1999, you would've known what was at stake when joining the military. Are people naive to not have known 9/11 would happen which would radically reshape the world's military balance?

If they enlisted in 1999, then they would have been done with their term already. Like I said, most terms are 2 years, and 4 years max. To be in the war now, in most situations, they would have enlisted after 9/11.

[delirious]

You've already told me you know people who are serving. Are you implying that it makes you biased in these debates because you're doing your duty and "defending their valour?"

It makes me more knowledgable, considering I receive letters written by actual people, not polls that were conducted by biased newspapers.

So by knowing some soldiers who are serving in the war, it makes you more knowledgable with regards to the other 99.9% of the soldiers in the war? Please explain.

Please explain how, if you enlisted in 1999, you would've known what was at stake when joining the military. Are people naive to not have known 9/11 would happen which would radically reshape the world's military balance?

If they enlisted in 1999, then they would have been done with their term already. Like I said, most terms are 2 years, and 4 years max. To be in the war now, in most situations, they would have enlisted after 9/11.

They still would've fought in Iraq, so that's a non-answer.

[Civic_Zen]

I am done arguing with you mr delirious.

Have a good weekend. I know I will.

[delirious]

Have a good weekend. I know I will.

Thanks and same to you! The weather is lovely in Cape Town ATM and I hope to go up the mountain tomorrow

[Yao]

Re:: Mother of dead marine has her say about Farenheight 9/1

Maybe I'm being a complete idiot by saying this, but if you enlist, you're making the choice for a violent profession, right? Your sole training is learn how to fight, and how to do that as good and effectively as possible.
Don't go telling me those soldiers 'just forgot' about that the moment they signed up.

A few friends of mine had to go on a mission, too, and they knew they could be sent when they signed up. It's the risk you take, wether you consider the war illegal or not. By enlisting you empower your government to send you wherever they think it's nessecary. Right or Wrong in your opinion.