London doesn't get a break...

**toasty** · July 21, 2005, 11:23:40 AM

Re: London doesn't get a break...

I hear you and believe me, I feel the temptation at times to want to just nuke the whole area and be done with it.

The problem is that making it a war against Islam and starting a full scale holy war makes enemies out of people that are just as aghast at these acts as we are and seriously broadens the scope of who we're fighting. It is an invitation to start WWIII. Nontraditional enemies require nontraditional tactics, which is part of why I have a real hard time connecting the War in Iraq (a traditional war) with the War on Terror (a nontraditional war) and find it to be a distraction from the real battle. I'm all for taking it to the terrorists -- the question is where and how.

In light of what has gone on in London the last couple of weeks, it suggests to me that the War in Iraq isn't seriously impeding the work of the terrorist cells that have the ability and desire to attack our civilians and that are clearly not flocking to Iraq to join the battle, as Bush suggests.

**Yao** · July 21, 2005, 11:39:36 AM

Re: London doesn't get a break...

Well, just as much as the US says it wants to take the battle to their grounds, they are doing the same to us. I'm not for declaring war on them tho, that was just the first pissed off reaction, but we cannot leave the battle.

If the West were to pull back, it would give extremists the space to seize power, which they will try for sure, with violence if needed. The problem here is: democracy is based on the rule of the majority, but without violence: it is some general agreement that makes people restrain themselves and accept the situation, even if they don't like it. Those extremists don't need a majority to seize and stay in power, because they use blunt force, like the Taliban did. We try to fight them with our democratic laws and stuff, but i'm fearing they just won't do.

so difficult...it's against my moral principles to vistimise people that are innocent, but I'm afraid we cannot avoid that, since our adversaries don't mind at all. Holding back is giving them more space to carry out their plans, and kill more innocent people. Going in full scale is to many not an option either, since it will result in casualties that have nothing to do with it...

Everything we do is wrong...I hate having a conscience.

**eye-p** · July 21, 2005, 11:51:39 AM

Re: London doesn't get a break...

I am an athiest, and I have disdain for all religion.

That said, I dont think this is about Islam. I think this about Western foreign policy concerning Muslim nations. In other words, they just happen to be muslim.

The real problem is that we are trying to take over the Middle East, for whatever reason, (oil), and they are fighting back.

This whole thing is awful, and makes me ill.

**toasty** · July 21, 2005, 12:06:23 PM

Re: London doesn't get a break...

Originally posted by eye-p

This whole thing is awful, and makes me ill.

Unfortunately, on this point, I'm pretty sure we all agree. No easy answers.

**Corven** · July 21, 2005, 12:09:46 PM

Re: London doesn't get a break...

religion is just an excuse for the extremists to start something in order to seize power ... by saying that its a holy war is just a front for them to justify what they are doing to the world ... it doesnt help if we bring the war to their front and start killing every muslim just because they are a islamic country

what would you do if a group of white men are to do the same in the middle east and start claiming that they are starting a holy war in the name of christianity??

**thesightless** · July 21, 2005, 01:18:20 PM

Re: London doesn't get a break...

[quote="toastyUnfortunately, on this point, I'm pretty sure we all agree. No easy answers.[/quote]

put a sign on the borders and airports saying ""Tan People Will be Shot on Site."

sad thing is, people are going to cry about racial profiling. it isnt spanish people pulling this.

read this, its about a conversation i had with two clients of mine who are on the NYPD/FBI joint task force.

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http://bedrock.org.uk/socialise/viewtopic.php?t=23271

**Yao** · July 21, 2005, 04:25:35 PM

Re: London doesn't get a break...

Yea that shit happens here too, and it pisses me off. That is what i said to someone else today...how can you effectively combat people when you yourself are bound by rules when they themselves are no bound by any rules at all?

**davetlv** · July 21, 2005, 06:52:59 PM

Tell me about Yao, we've been in that situation since 2000.

There is no easy solution, either we fight their game their style, which involves us losing our humanity, or we try to gently poke holes in their fences but never actually beating them.

**thesightless** · July 21, 2005, 09:31:56 PM

Re: London doesn't get a break...

or use a atomic bomb and kill them all.

unfortunetly i think it will c ome to this as the ""coalition forces" fight more, they will fight back more and it gain scale for years to come until it becomes a full out war on many turfs and they propogandate thier youths to be mislead and some are so lyoal to the religion that they are willing to risk it all. this is a war that is only going to escalate until something extreely terrible has to be done. this is just the beginning of the third big one.

**beto** · July 22, 2005, 01:06:54 AM

Re: London doesn't get a break...

Originally posted by Yao

This pisses me off so bad...so bad. Never had this thought before, but right now I'm almost ready to declare war on all Islamists...

Hopefully you were just angry when you wrote that and you weren't thinking clearly. Islam has nothing to do with terrorism. Not a thing.

London doesn't get a break...

London doesn't get a break...

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