god vs. god MMV

[cowardly dj]

Re: miketpoto

The scriptures which you reffer to in Ephesians is taken out of context. Ephesians 5 is advice given by the Lord to the Saints and families. It does not talk about church services. The Bible also does not state that you shouldn't use instruments in religious services.

Ephesians 5:19 is instruction so I again refer to 2 Timothy 3:16 and add verse 17 to it

2Ti 3:16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

for those of you who may see the word perfect here it does not mean perfect as in flawless, it comes from the greek word artios which means complete not flawless.

it is not taken out of context it is just a description of how they were told to sing hymns

The Bible also does not state that you shouldn't use instruments in religious services

I will try to explain what I said earlier

Eph 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord

This verse is broken into 2 different directives. The first being "Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs." This is what we are told to do when we are with each other and to each other.
The second half of the verse is different from the first and relates to what we do when we are with God. "singing and making melody in your hearst to the Lord." The greek word used here is ado which is a primary verb and means "to sing" Singing is acapella and musical instruments do not accompany it. "Making melody in your hearts to the Lord." is clear.

Melody is and agreeable succession of sounds; a succession so regulated asnd modulated as to please the ear. It differs from harmony inasmuch as melody is an agreeable successin of sounds by a single voice.

Webster defines melody as this - 1. pleasing sounds or an agreeable arrangement of such sounds 2. music (a) a succession of tones constituting, in combination, a whole (b) the chief part or voice in a composition; the air [<greek melos song + aoidos singer]


It is the air that comes from the mouth. It can not come from a musical instrument. You do not use an intrument in your heart. You use your "heart" as the highest act of worship. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. And in speaking we exhale air and all this adds up to acapella.

This is why we are told to
2Ti 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
because if we do not study we can miss the point.

Just because the Bible does not specifically mention something as right or wrong does mean that it is not addressed. The Bible does not say in words that smoking pot is sinful but any person that calls themselves children of God will not refute that it is a sin.

[Hos]

Re: miketpoto

can someone post a link to the Creation thread?

spanks

[palmer]

Re: miketpoto

search button imo

[cowardly dj]

Re: miketpoto

^ No it doesnt. You still havent explained how that verse in Revelations is pertaining to instructions on how to worship God.

It means exactly what it says. We do not add to or take away from what scripture says or we are condemned. There is no other way to explain what is in its most simple terms.

What i meant to ask you by quoting acts was this: Have you sold your possesions and goods, and do you attend the temple? If not, are you still a christian?

we give on Sunday in the collection plate.

the temple is a building and it is where they attended. Today we attend in our buildings

[sakio pod]

Re: miketpoto

this is still going on

[cowardly dj]

Re: miketpoto

Didn't Jesus say it would be easier to pass a camel through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven

yes he did and it is not the money it is where your heart is. If your life is dedicated to making money and buying "toys" then you are not serving God. Abraham was a very rich man but he was also called a righteous man
Jam 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

It is not the money it is serving two masters
Mat 6:24No man can serve two masters:for either he will hate the one,and love the other;or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other.Ye cannot serveGod and mammon.

mammon means wealth

[cowardly dj]

Re: miketpoto

http://www.mercuryserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18976&highlight=cowardly

[asdf_admin]

Re: miketpoto

I have some issues with "going" to church. most go to "church" for showmanship. therefore they believe they have fair passage to Heaven. I am not saying all, but most. My own faith has grown a lot more outside of "church", funny as it may seem, it truly has. I do not quote the Bible, nor do I use it in my own defense. I guess to me that means I am the writer and the full bearer of understanding of the words within. Four different people can read the same passage, and all express different understandings. I do not think one yields higher or lesser. For that reason, I have difficulty with people saying this is right and this wrong. Man makes many mistakes, and even in my own faith, priests, bishops, cardinals, and other members have used the words of God to fuel war, for sex, for money, and for other things.

i do not think it is right, nor do i think it is fair.

[Hos]

Re: miketpoto

thanks CDJ

search button imo

hey, I'm new here

[miketpoto]

Re: miketpoto

Can't you guys see that he is a classic case of "SAVED SYNDROME" ? If your life is a rollercoaster ride of ups and mostly downs, and you haven't had any way you've tried to achieve stability and/or prosperity end up working.... Perhaps its just a major lack in willpower (it's tough to motivate at all sometimes / depression / hopelessness / etc.) but I am not pointing fingers or claiming I know enough about Cowardly to even suggest what exactly made things so unpredictable and tumultuous.... But just like getting high, religious salvation and ever-lasting-redemption can be it's own escape or cover-up for dealing with the actual reasons behind who were are or why we do things.

Get in touch with yourself, find out who you truly are as a person, and if when you find the answer to that, and you still truly believe that you are not worthy of god's love or of your own (based on how you treat others and the world around you in general) then ask yourself what you have done or are doing that makes you feel this way. I'm willing to bet most people will have a few specific regrets and they have nothing to do with improperly worshiping god according to his contract.

Unfortunely, when you live life according to your own morals and values, you hold yourself accountable for doing the right thing as opposed to fearing punishment and eternal damnation... it takes a lot of personal strength to prioritize one's self-respect (and respect for others) before temptation with no tangible reward for doing so.

I am not telling you to do these things Cowardly, but I am putting them out there because I have half a family of recovering alchoholics who have been "saved" and I've never seen a better example such an ugly and emtpy reversal of what was once warm and compassionate turn cold and vacant. There was a few years time after the drinking stopped before the salvation started that showed me who they were as people truly, and sadly the beautiful parts of that are gone or hidden behind glazed over eyes. The details get WAY more fucked up and personal, so I shant share them on the forum, but if you are interested in hearing them, PM me and I will share them with you.

[bart_smastard]

Re: miketpoto

I am with you on this one ( though most get introduced to religion by their parents from a young age and simply know no different ) .But i am with you on the whole rewards thing, i do good deeds because i want to not because i expect to get repaid for them and my concience stops me being a " bad person" not the threat of eternal damnation

[shosh]

Re: miketpoto

so CDJ, I'm still trying to see why we are not to use instruments in Church?

also in Malachi we are told to give a tithing to the Lord (tithe=tenth). so we should give 10% of what we have or make.

the scripture in revelations referrs to the book of revelations, more specifically John's prohecy.

[cowardly dj]

Re: miketpoto

My next point is: Which is the TRUE Church of Jesus Christ?

I can give you a quick rundown from memory as most of my study notes are at home.

The church wsa prophesied in the old testament by Isaiah. It was called the mountain of the Lord. Throughout the New Testament we see that the church was purchaed by the blood of Christ. It is an establishment that was designed by God before he made man and earth. (Ephesians 1:4) He desinged the "plan of salvation" beforehand because he gave man free moral will so if man sinned he had an advocate to make peace with God. Since Adam and Eve sinned man was separated from God. Jesus was sent to earth to reconcile man with God.

Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fullness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.


So we now know that Christ purchased the church. So if he purchased it then he is its sole owner. Man has not the right to claim any other relation to the church which is established by God, not man.


Here is the where we see that the Church of Christ is the only church sanctified by scripture
Matthew 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that the Son of man am?
Mat 16:14 And they said, Some saythatthouart John the Baptist: some, Elijah; and others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.
Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee ,but my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 16:18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church;and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

take this in conjunction with Romans 16:16 and you will see that there is only one church.
Rom 16:16 Salute one another with a holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.

If you study the Bible you will see that all through it we are warned to watch for false teachers.

Mat 7:15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing ,but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

You will not see anywhere in the Bible any other mention of any name of the church. The word church comes from the greek word ekklesia which means called out. The church that Christ established is made up of those called out by God before creation.

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

So in following the bible's outline of the church we see that ther eis only one body of the church which is often referred to the body of Christ

Rom 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

1Co 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether webe Jews or Gentiles, whether webe bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

So if any church does not carry the name of Christ as stated in Romans 16:16 we know from scripture that it is not sanctified by God. History teaches us that denominations came along as time progressed from the will of men taking scripture and changing it to meet his needs. That is why there are so many denominations with so many diffenet names. Man can take the scripture and twist it to meet his needs but just because he says it is scripture does not mean it is. Until you take the entire New testament ands put it together to make the complete "new covenant" you willnot understand it. You can not take jsut a few scriptures and use them to build a belief system. The bible does not contradict itself anywhere so if you read one thing in one place and then something that seems contrary to it then you need to research more in depth.

The Bible is not to be read like books we have today. It is a collection of inspired words by the inspired writers and it needs to be read over and over to understand it. Some points are in certain books in the New Testament and other points are in other books. Again I say you have to take the whole message and piece it together. That is why we are told in 2 timothy to "study to show thyself approved a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth"

[bart_smastard]

Re: miketpoto

Just for the record I would like to make it clear I have nothing against CDJ at all as a person .It's just our views and beliefs contradict eachovers and this tends to lead into derogotary posts at each other . I do respect the level of comitment and knowledge he has on his faith . Although I disagree with almost everything he posts if I didn't enjoy reading them I wouldn't respond to them .. I've said my piece on this subject ..

but i'm in training for the next time our paths cross

these long winded ones are not enjoyable at all though..

[asdf_admin]

Re: miketpoto

he sure does cover his grounds. good job on the layout, color, and formatting. A+ in my book. good stuff cdj.