Some of my research as I promised

[Kamal]

Re: Some of my research as I promised

well for one thing, what do you classify as life ? anything that walks around with a beating heart ? what about plants in this case ? I think a good point to start the debate would be are there any planets or cosmic bodies out there that have the ability to sustain at least some form of intelligent life capable of communicating with other life forms (for the sake of this debate, lets say us).

You go back to the Drake Equation, plugin the numbers, and get a ridiculous number of extremely slim odds. But in the grandiosa of the universe in terms of size + the number of planets that could inherit intelligent life..... the chances of us meeting them with out technological prowess is NONE (unless they drop in and announce themselves).

So where are we going again with this thread ?

[cowardly dj]

Re: Some of my research as I promised

going in any direction

it is just to provoke thought

[bart_smastard]

Re: Some of my research as I promised

Is this thread not provoking thought in what you actualy believe in CDJ? If you are delving into books on the big bang and if you are also quoting from these books you must repsect what they say . Is this thread actualy changing ure opinion on the book of genesis ? . The part that says god created this planet and all that lives upon it 30,000 years ago. ( 18billion i think is the actual age of the universe) also if god created all this for us it would be perfect and last for eternity , and not just have 1.5billion years left before our own sun starts to die and swallows up our own solar system . also why are stars still bing born if on that first day of creation god completed his work making the heavens. many christians believe more in the big bang than they do in creation . does this make them less righteous than you or just less blinkered ? . The biggest and most difficult question mankind can ask is where did we come from? why are we here? . religion gives some ppl the answer but it takes blind faith to ignore the science disproving what those religions say

[Kamal]

Re: Some of my research as I promised

Universe is actually 13.5 billion years old (give or take a few 1000) and as for God creating the universe and everything on it.... I go back to my post in your other thread about strange facts....

The earth is a little over 3 billion years old and there has been at least some form of life on the earth for the last 980 million years..... then what was it 50,000 years ago that made the apes (if Darwin was right) stand upright, start walking around like humans in addition to possessing some form of comprehensible intelligence. Was God just not there for the previous 979,950,000 years ?

EDIT: And if it wasnt God..... what was this external factor that caused it ?? Aliens visiting earth seeing the potential we may have several tens of thousands of years in the future ? To which I go back to my original thoughts from a similar thread in MS V1.0

is God only just a race of super intelligent / super advanced Alien species thats responsible for some sort of creation all over the universe ? But they too would be bound to the limitations of the universe right ? I mean you cant alter EVERY SINGLE THING there is to alter..... maybe there is..... and that is probably what we mean as God

[Yao]

Re: Some of my research as I promised

I guess not. And in a way, for Christians history didn't start untill when their books says I did. Over here we call that 'eyepatches'.

Belief in itself is not a real big problem, but to deny all that has been proven so far is just ridiculous.

does anyone remember that last scene in 'Men In Black'?? The one where the camera zooms out, only to reveal that our galaxy is only one of many others in a marble, which is put in a bag with a few others by some alien lifeform?

For all I care, that could be the truth...

[Kamal]

Re: Some of my research as I promised

afar from being a marble thats put into a bag.... the reference to being one of several 100 billion is fairly accurate.... there are several 100 billion solar systems in a galaxy and several 100 billion galaxies in the universe.... the magnitude of the size of the universe is incredibly well depicited during the start of the movie "Contact".

The pull back - starting from a satellites view of North America heading out past distant Galaxies is not only breathtaking.... just makes you realize how really insignificant you are living on this little blue dot

[clintlove]

Re: Some of my research as I promised

[Kamal]

Re: Some of my research as I promised

were u meaning to post in the Nonsense thread ?

[bart_smastard]

Re: Some of my research as I promised

E my previous post was a 6 A.M.er shutting off comp before i headed off to work and what's 4 and a half billion years between friends anyway . Anyhows i have never disputed there being a god at some stage in the birth of this universe . This thread is about what religous teachings say about the creation of the stars our planet and ourselves.The universe is so perfect for creating life as we know it so it must have had an intelligent hand shaping things .. WRONG .. maybe . As we see time and time again life is a formidable force that strives to survive and strives for an upper hand against those around it . If the universe was different then lifeforms would be different but i would put money on life still bing created by the collision and interaction of whateva material there was . Life is a persistant force that strives to be bigger and better . But so many other things we don't consider to be living are as well . A galaxy is created by a high density of matter pulling as much material as it can towards it 's center ( this is simplified id'e have to quote from books and this post would be longer than one of CJD's) absorbing as much energy as it can to create interaction and change within itself . All galaxies are unique and are constantly changing and bringing new life ( suns) into existence . So are these alive ? Suns are the same they drag as much matter towards them as possible and strive to be the bigest most dominant object they can be . It is the nature of things to want to grow and be bigger. Things also strive to change and not stand still , demanding to dominate and become more than they are . A large white dwarf star because it is the biggest in the neighbourhood and fed up of it's life being stagnant will grow and grow swollowing everything it can then when it can grow no more will implode and create a black hole giving it'self enough gravity and power to drag more and more matter towards it because it wants to interact with more and more matter ( i know this all sounds daft and what could it have to do with living organisms but i am trying to say that change, interaction and growing is what living bodies want to do ) this is how life creates itself it just takes time/energy/and matter . damn i seem to have lost what it was i was supposed to be saying now ..fuck ... wait a sec i know . . Life may seem like a miracle but then again winning the lottery with odds over 14 million to 1 is aswell but someone wins it everyweek, and if u played it everyweek for 400 million years the odds are in ure favour that ude win it too . Long shots and improbable odds shorten over time making them almost certainties .
But if the founders of most religions realy had a one to one with god and he explained what to put in the book that represents his thoughts and conditions . THEN WHY THE FUCK DID HE LIE TO THEM ABOUT CREATION..

encryption it was 90,000 years ago that the first human remains found date back to . but what's 40,000 years between friends

[cowardly dj]

Re: Some of my research as I promised

Lets examine facts here and not our feelings.

There is no scientific evidence that the earth is 15 billion years old. It is an estimate.

Find me any and I mean any scientist that will tell you that all scientific explanations for creation and the universe are not theories.

Some of you seem to forget or just do not know that a theory means someone is guessing about something.

Perhaps someone needs to stop using their feelingas and hatred toward religion to guide their thoughts and use a little common sense.

Some people would not know the truth on a subject if it were a bomb exploding in their living room.

I will continue to endure the insults. They do not mean anything except that some people need to mature a little more. Most people stopped insulting others after high school. It is called respecting others. Maybe more people above the age of 18 should try it.

Some people say that to get respect you have to give it but, I say respect everyone even if they do not respect you, because in doing so the true charcter of each person is magnified, glorified, or shamed.

[bart_smastard]

Re: Some of my research as I promised

Perhaps someone needs to stop using their feelingas and hatred toward religion to guide their thoughts and use a little common sense.

Some people would not know the truth on a subject if it were a bomb exploding in their living room.

I will continue to endure the insults. They do not mean anything except that some people need to mature a little more. Most people stopped insulting others after high school. It is called respecting others. Maybe more people above the age of 18 should try it.

Some people say that to get respect you have to give it but, I say respect everyone even if they do not respect you, because in doing so the true charcter of each person is magnified, glorified, or shamed.

Fucking hell yet another spitting out of the dummy post by cowardly.
Why is it when ppl arn't agreeing with you they are being immature and stupid ?
And as for not knowing the truth if a bomb exploded in your living room nonsense you are the one going on about facts from scientists.
But if their views arn't being twisted to suite what you think they are falsehoods ?
Do you actualy discuss or only dictate ?
You go on about respect , but you have insulted more ppl on here in 3 months than anyone else ( me included) and at least when i do it my tongue is in cheek and it's half in jest

[cowardly dj]

Re: Some of my research as I promised

Once again the point of my post was completely missd.
Let me break it down as simple as I can

I have not asked anyone to agree with me. I have put it out there as food for thought.

[Yao]

Re: Some of my research as I promised

Lets examine facts here and not our feelings.

There is no scientific evidence that the earth is 15 billion years old. It is an estimate.

Find me any and I mean any scientist that will tell you that all scientific explanations for creation and the universe are not theories.

Some of you seem to forget or just do not know that a theory means someone is guessing about something.

Perhaps someone needs to stop using their feelingas and hatred toward religion to guide their thoughts and use a little common sense.

Some people would not know the truth on a subject if it were a bomb exploding in their living room.

I will continue to endure the insults. They do not mean anything except that some people need to mature a little more. Most people stopped insulting others after high school. It is called respecting others. Maybe more people above the age of 18 should try it.

Some people say that to get respect you have to give it but, I say respect everyone even if they do not respect you, because in doing so the true charcter of each person is magnified, glorified, or shamed.

Dude, in disregard of your last post:

C14 dating techniques are wuite accurate: the eath's age is not just a wild, guess, there is a margin, but so small that it is quite accurate to say this planet is almost 5 bln years old (not over 3, as -e- stated).

A large part of the evolution theory has already been backed by substantial evidence, please do not ever forget that. So far science is ahead of religion in proving it's point. All 'you' have is a book, 'we' have hard fact data. If the fact that science cannot prove the originin of life is enough reason for you to say it is 'wrong', then let me remind you of the fact that your assurance of our original hails from a book, not from any reasearch or whatever, allright? You'll have to trust that the people who wrote it weren't just a few dillusional attention-whores. When it comes to evidence the evolutionist have a lot more to back up their story than any religious person.

Now if your throw in the argument the scientists are only human: yes, that is very true. But at least a lot of scientific formula's, theories and whatnot can actually be proven. They are facts. They can be checked over and over again, in the past, present and future. The bible, Qur'an, Thora and such cannot. They have been produced at one point in history, never to be disputed or revised/rewritten again.

[NastyD]

Re: Some of my research as I promised

Lets examine facts here and not our feelings.

Yes, lets.

There is no scientific evidence that the earth is 15 billion years old. It is an estimate.

So when a builder says to you that he estimates that some work will take 3 days to do, do you tell him that this is not scientific fact? No you accept that with his years of experience he is able to project the time that he will spend doing a job reasonably accurate, yet he is also aware that he cannot predict every single parameter to the nth degree. Yet he knows that his estimate will be reasonably accurately to within a predictable margin. That is what an estimate is. You seem to be confusing the word "estimate" with the word "guess".

Find me any and I mean any scientist that will tell you that all scientific explanations for creation and the universe are not theories.

Some of you seem to forget or just do not know that a theory means someone is guessing about something.

This is the difference between science and faith. Yes, a scientist will accept that his explanations are theories, but these are theories based on known parameters that serve to explain facts as we are able to observe them. Any scientist will accept the possibility that he may subsequently be proven wrong. This is the very nature of learning. People used to believe that the Universe revolved around the Earth and that the Earth was flat. The main opponents of these theories have consistently been the church, and as known facts and knowledge have increased, so these theories have been demonstrated to be false.

Theory does not mean someone guessing about something (struggling very hard here not to personally insult you). Guessing means that someone is guessing about something. When someone theorizes, they take known facts and extrapolate them to make scenarios that fit their observations. Then they work to discover proofs or better theories.

Perhaps someone needs to stop using their feelingas and hatred toward religion to guide their thoughts and use a little common sense.

Some people would not know the truth on a subject if it were a bomb exploding in their living room.

Try looking in the mirror some day.

I will continue to endure the insults. They do not mean anything except that some people need to mature a little more. Most people stopped insulting others after high school. It is called respecting others. Maybe more people above the age of 18 should try it.

Trying to play the martyr doesn't do you any favours Cowardly. I've seen very little in the way of insults here, only people thinking about what you've written, then rebutting with their own thoughts. This in one of the key ways that learning increases, but only if the person who kicked off the thread doesn't bawl his eyes out and bemoan the fact other people actually dare disagree every time that someone argues.

And lets not forget here - the Bible wasn't handed down to us from the heavens. It was written by people who felt that they had something to tell, then compiled, edited, censored and translated by people who had their own, mostly political, agendas. If Jesus (who almost certainly existed as a real person) had any idea what St Paul was going to do with his name, then I wonder if he might have gone about things differently???

[bart_smastard]

Re: Some of my research as I promised

^^ eloquently put ^^