British Honour Killing

[thesightless]

Re: British Honour Killing

PS i just farted really bad

[nemrac]

Re: British Honour Killing

you need to stop drinking

[thesightless]

Re: British Honour Killing

yah i do. i should be asleep, i have to go to JETS game in about 6 hours


andy coming in thursday, take off work early and come with me to pick him up

[davetlv]

Re: British Honour Killing

Europe has been far too lenient in letting minorities from outside live by their own rules for long: they have been able to develop themselves into cultural enclaves in some cases, thus enabling the rise of a 'we against them' mentality, which is ultimately undermining the integration process completely of course.

One of the reason why Europe might have been, as you say Yao, too lenient is because of Europes recent history and the mass murder of 6 million Jews in the 30's and 40's.

However, that said, there are certain laws a country MUST uphold for all its citizens, regardless of where they were born. The bottom line is this, in the UK murder is illegal - it doesn't matter whether its an 'honor' killing or something else. Murder is illegal. Therefore, regardless of who commits the crime or even what motavation they think they have for committing the crime, MURDER IS ILLEGAL and the full weight of the law should be used to punish those who commit such crimes for what ever reason.

Now, Bart believes that if someone, not native to the UK commit a crime, they should be sent back to where they came from. I can not agree with this at all. Crimes committed in one country should only be punishable by that country. By jailing these murderers it has shown that the UK will not tollerate this type of barbaric behaviour in the same way as it wont tollerate any other crime.

Peace and love to you all.

[bart_smastard]

Re: British Honour Killing

I'll give you a little insight into why my opinions on this are like they are .
1.There has been rising tensions between muslims and non muslims across europe for a few years .Other minorities although streaming into England by the thousands are trying to assimilate into our coulture and from what i can gather no tension or hostility has arisen with them one bit.
2. My opinion on foriegn criminals is just that . We allow then into our country under certain conditions . Just like if i went to live in America or Australia i would have to sign something to say what conduct i would abide by . If i did not follow these guide lines my rights to work over there would be withdrawn .
3. If I am a guest in someones house or country i would respect them and appreciate any hospitality shown . Not demand the funiture ( if in someones house ) be moved or laws (if in someones country) be changed to suite my needs . It's called respecting the host.
4. I am in the process of trying to emigrate at the moment but in looking for another country to move to i considered what type of country i could adapt to , not what kind of country i could adapt .
And finnaly ( this is a long one )
This pissed me off big time around a month ago .They were doing a bit of a piece on slums in england on the morning news . They were focusing on Blackburn and how certain areas had degenerated from nice areas to slums . Because of the huge muslim connection ( most of the london bombers were from blackburn ) and they wanted to find out why englishmen could blow their countrymen up. So anyhows they were talking to a father of the household ( with the aid of an interpreter.his english was vry broken) he had 6 children and he wouldn't allow his wife to learn english or work . If you can't speak english you can't get a good enough job to support 6 children and a wife who dosn't work . So he must of been living off the state . And this is the bit that pissed me off . He was blaming the goverment and the council for not investing in the area and not investing in businesses for the decline in the neighbourhood . He said the goverment should stop spending money on wars and concentrate on the areas in england that needed investment . This TWAT had never invested a penny of his own money ,all he had ever done was take money that he had never earnt but he believed he was entitled to judge where money should go . His area is a shitty mess because councils rely on council tax for any referbishment but seeing as the population of that area don't give and only take there was fuckall money to be invested . I pay a shedload in taxes and £1800 a year in council tax . And it fucks me off that i had to move house because the money I paid into the system got invested in council properties and in order to stop these areas getting vandalised they moved all youths who roam the streets into the private area i lived in and made it a no go zone . To cut a long story shorter . What i am trying to say is .

KEEP SHIT WHERE IT BELONGS

[Yao]

Re: British Honour Killing

One of the reason why Europe might have been, as you say Yao, too lenient is because of Europes recent history and the mass murder of 6 million Jews in the 30's and 40's.

However, that said, there are certain laws a country MUST uphold for all its citizens, regardless of where they were born. The bottom line is this, in the UK murder is illegal - it doesn't matter whether its an 'honor' killing or something else. Murder is illegal. Therefore, regardless of who commits the crime or even what motavation they think they have for committing the crime, MURDER IS ILLEGAL and the full weight of the law should be used to punish those who commit such crimes for what ever reason.

Now, Bart believes that if someone, not native to the UK commit a crime, they should be sent back to where they came from. I can not agree with this at all. Crimes committed in one country should only be punishable by that country. By jailing these murderers it has shown that the UK will not tollerate this type of barbaric behaviour in the same way as it wont tollerate any other crime.

Peace and love to you all.

I understand what you say Dave, and that would and should be the normal way of things, if it weren't for the context in which this is all taking place. It makes very clear that some people are still not tended to integrate in this society, and not just that: that is a symptom of a current in the Islam which is not only resistant to integreation, but even agressively opposed to our way of life. Now the best nuance I can make on this, that you relate the extradidion to the level of integration AND the intention with which such a crime was committed.

Say what you want, but this was not just a murder, it's also a bit of Islamic culture being displayed which is not supposed to be excercised in our communties...

[srbbnd]

Re: British Honour Killing

To the hell with the French and Paris. If they weren't such snobs in the first place maybe they wouldn't be getting taken over by pimpled faced teens. It has been 11 days and the police still can't get everything under control. La Revolution.

[Yao]

Re: British Honour Killing

Could you please cut out that bullshit about the French being snobs and deserving shit for that? That is the one most annoying thing about some of you yanks, that constant bitching over the French. Even in a series I sometimes like to watch (JAG) they have depicted the French DA from the International Court of Justice in The Hague as a man with a thin rat-face, his hair combed backwards very tightly and him acting extremely arrogant. Fucking stereotyping at it's best.

Like Dave said: we're having these problems because of our strong bonds with the territories those people come from, hence the high number of them present in Europe. The second reason is the one I named: leniency in pushing their integration process. And the French are taking it all pretty fucking calmly (except for Sarkozy, who's spewing out warlike language now), while they have enough force to kick the shit out of the rioters in the first place. The idea maybe that they may start a dialogue afterwards to address the causes of tall this.

btw: It's not that the USA haven't seen any riots in the past from their ethnic minorities either (I remember something after Rodney King and there are a few more like the D.C. riots in 196. So think a little for making such stupid statements next time.

[thesightless]

Re: British Honour Killing

few things.

1. the world, some actively, some inadvertently, are turning Islam into a disease in the eyes of the mainstream media and populus. we are beginning to use terms like ""symtoms"" aND ""effects"" and ""cause of"" in relation to islam. to be honest, they arent helping themsleves, rioting, killing each other in the afghani provinces and iraq, having iran president calling for the jewish state to be eradicated, and more.

2. yao, america HATES the french. im serious, its widespread over here. nothing violent, but most of the people wont give them a second look, its not like they actively hate and oppose them, its just gotten to the point where ppl dont care enough to consider them. just an FYI.

3. IMO, and ill reitterate that, In My Opinion, you cant allow these people the special treatment, nay, even the terminology, of a ""honor killing"". its murder, and cold blooded in that. nothing sudden, this case was premeditated, and had multiple participants. this is where i think conservatives need to jump in. lay down the law. if you dont, then you will lose control.


france isnt a strict overbearing gov't from what i have seen. but they are basically being overrthrown in these areas(or an attempt at it). these people are rioting b/c of a police presence in an area they essentially thought they took over. the ""accepted story"" is cops chased, kids ran into a place they shouldnt have been after committing a crime, they died b/c they ran into an electrical feild. what did the gov't do wrong here? what did the cops do wrong here?


the sad thing that is going to happen is that the prevailling sense of entitlement that the islamic community has been showing lately, truly beleiving that the religious law is and will come to be, the law of land is going to cause a massive fight, whether violent or non-, its gonna happen. for those who have the power and dont want to realize that the real authority is Bush, Blair, CHirac, etc etc etc, well i think they will get desparete before they give up.

not trying to sound racist, but i am not going to be PC and fake. there are billions of wonderful humans, but they are the quiet ones sadly. it is the askewed few who make headlines, commit murder, cause trouble. this family should be gutted and put on TV as a forewarning that this shit will not be tolerated, there are no honor killings, there are no punishments for avoiding religious text. if you want to learn the law,, find your respectives areas legal texts and read.

[Jenks]

Re: British Honour Killing

[thesightless]

Re: British Honour Killing

lmao,

if i were stroasky, (spelling off i know). i would go on TV and basically say

""to the rioters, i say this, our police and security forced have been given a go ahead to shoot to kill upon threat, you will not stand in the way of peace, let us investigate and find the truth, but you will not become the law, you will not harm those who are here to help, you will not win. if you are intent on causing trouble, you will be arrested, and you will no longer put others in harms way. again i state, if you threaten a police officer, they will shoot you.""

[srbbnd]

Re: British Honour Killing

I had a wonderful time visiting Mexico with my family, however the only people who caused us any trouble were a group of French tourists. They called us quote "American pigs..." with a little slurred drunken accent. After that they tried to hit on my sister. That is my only encounter with the French. Maybe they did not represent the whole population. Also I find it funny it has been 12 days of rioting and it is only getting worse.

[bart_smastard]

Re: British Honour Killing

There was an artical in the telegraph today saying the riots were due to frances low employment and failure to resolve the growing resentment for lack of investment in ghetto areas. Now i will be honnest with you guys i do loathe the french polical leadership and it's will for power . I also loathe the way it tries to muscle other counties in the E.U. to vote against england on any matter . Also that crook in charge who invents laws to save himself and the rest of his goverment from prosecution over blatant acts of fraud and bribery .
That said , what i realy detest is ppl trying to blame a goverment for another persons criminal actions .If you live in a ghetto ,your situation should fuel your ambition to improve yourself and move away . If you have pride in your local area you should work with the police and the council to improve the area you live in .
The only aspect of incidents like this that you can point blame towards the goverment is allowing a single community to be over run and governed by ethnic minorities . It dosn't encourage intergration or assimilation . It only helps to create divides . The whole human rights situation in europe is about as fucked up as it gets ,a stern hand is needed and some vry tough measures need enforcing
ie. deportation of known antagonists
a changing of welfare support for people who havn't contributed into the system
an end to modycoddling ppl's sensabilities .If somethings the truth SAY IT
and a tightening up of borders only allowing in "key skills" workers
the political assylum laws state "the next safe country " unless ure fleeing spain/germany or italy for fear of prosecution on political grounds how the hell is france or england your next safe counrty ?
I know all this sounds very right wing but france would not have the large level of unemployment it has if it wasn't for 100,000 ppl entering it's country without a job waiting for them .
Economic migrants must only be allowed access if their is a shotrage of ppl to fill any position shortages . France dosn't have any .
If this does apear racist to you . you have not realy understood what i'm trying to say

[thesightless]

Re: British Honour Killing

the french gov't ion the areas has worked tirelessly for the last 40 years to improve the areas through tax free status for potential businesses, pumping in funding for low income housing, and more. it just hasnt worked. ppl dont want to put thier money into a poor area. its a catch 22. build my office in a nice area with wealthy clientel? or build a building in a poor area where most wont be able to afford my product?

[bart_smastard]

Re: British Honour Killing

That is the sort of policy that is doomed to fail before it starts . All well intentioned and the "correct" thing to do . But it dosn't work , you have to change the ppl's attitudes not the enviroment around them . In England they came up with the idea of solving bad nieghbourhoods by breaking them up and dispersing the familes . All they ended up achieving was spreading the same problems into other areas . So instead of one realy bad area and 10 fairly decent areas you now have 11 bad areas because the attiude they have has spread .It only takes one shitty family to ruin a small street .
If i had the power and was incapable of feeling remorse i would gas the bastards . If someone isn't a benefit to society they have no right to be part of that society