France??

[Ganduras]

Re: France??

i think if anyone is really interested in this topic they should watch a movie called "Hate (La Haine)" it will open up your eyes a little to some of the stuff that goes on in French ghettos and on life in general

[stencil_cp]

Re: France??

^^ forgot about that movie, it's a powerful one. thanks for bringing it up

[jdat]

Re: France??

Glad to hear someone bring up the movie La Haine ( which is btw 10 years old ).
One of my favorite movies of all times and it's truly representative of the whole situation and just to give you a brief idea it involved a white jewish guy, some algerian guy and an african guy for the main cast.

[mixu]

Re: France??

Sometimes I think Yao is the only one making any sense... why do people think everything boils to one issue all the time? And that the world is so simple?

[Yao]

Re: France??



Thanks Mixu....I just simply try to grasp all the aspects of a case or a problem: simplifying something in order to make it easier to understand is always a tempting option, but it does no right to the complexity of most problems, and therefore any solution or opinion derived from a too much simplified case can never be satisfactory IMO...

On the other hand I've also learned a great deal from people on this section, for which I am very thankful. And I just love the discussions here too, especially on the edge

[dig72]

Re: France??

Thanks Mixu....I just simply try to grasp all the aspects of a case or a problem: simplifying something in order to make it easier to understand is always a tempting option, but it does no right to the complexity of most problems, and therefore any solution or opinion derived from a too much simplified case can never be satisfactory IMO...

On the other hand I've also learned a great deal from people on this section, for which I am very thankful. And I just love the discussions here too, especially on the edge

Agreed.^^^^^^^^^

Apparently these problems in Fance have been going on for over 40 years.

The media would have you believe that this has all started since 9/11 or that Al Qaida had something to do with it.

[Yao]

Re: France??

Yea. And that pisses me off. What pisses me off even more is that some people are totally unwilling to do a little historical research in order to realise that, and just keep hammering that bloody Evil-Muslim-Terrorist agade...

[dig72]

Re: France??

Most would rather have it served to them in bowl and then have it fed to them with a shovel.


"That's a good little doggy, keep eating till that bowl is empty"

[jdat]

Re: France??

Agreed.^^^^^^^^^

Apparently these problems in Fance have been going on for over 40 years.

The media would have you believe that this has all started since 9/11 or that Al Qaida had something to do with it.

Yes exactly.

Riots as well as striking and most forms of civil unrest are rather common in France.

There's even a riot dedicated police task force ( I'm sure other countries do as well ) that's rather large just to keep up with the constant mess.

[thesightless]

Re: France??

maybe if the governments stop helping and giving breaks to the poor, then they will learn to help themselves. cruel, but catering to people only makes them get lazy and take advantage of the situation. tell them tough shit, this is how we do it here, live by our rules or move back to wherever you came from and make it better there. obviously you want it the way it is there, so GO BACK>

[Yao]

Re: France??

Uh....Sightless...

You might wanna give a few books that explain the interaction between states and civil society a try. Joel Migdal wrote a good one that is actually directed towards 3rd world development problems, but it is in many aspect also appliccable to modern society:

Joel S. Migdal: State in Society (studying how states and societies transform and constitute one another)

Integration in not a one way road dude...and from a lot of example you can see that most immigrants in a country will take the chance to do so, if offered the right instruments to do it (education, social status, future prospects). YES, they need to be facilitated to a certain extent, otherwise the impetus to integrate won't ever appear in their minds.

You see...they don't want it to be as it was back home. They came there with the hopes for a BETTER life, but the opportunities they got were jack shit. I don't know, but France has a pretty bad record when it comes to adapting itself: in it's whole history it has always forced other cultures to adapt themselves to France. Maybe it's time they realize that the time they could do that is gone, and that they seriously need to go through a fundamental change and start creating the conditions in which newcomers can finally get a change to create a place for themselves in French society.

Once you give them the chance to call something a true home, people will fight for it you know. Some states just seem to forget that sometimes.

[sono]

Re: France??

i was beginning to believe dance music fans were dumb until Yao and jdat spoke.

Glad to see some sanity on this board, even though in the minority.

[runningman]

Re: France??

Yao the Irish and Italians came to North America with absolutely nothing. We made it just fine. I am sure they can make it if they would ever work. The problem is they don't want to work.

[Yao]

Re: France??

Yeah sure, why not repeat those ethnically based clashes until they finally secure a place in civic society thru violence. Great. I don't recollect the Irish and Italians being welcomed with open arms, do you?

And moving from the urbanized regions to Canada all they saw was the indigenous people, who got swept aside just as easily. You're making the wrong equation here dude, although it might seem logical from your point of view. And if you had seen only snippets of the interviews with a few of those rioters out there, you'd have know that they're fucking pissed for not getting the chance to work. They're being discriminated really badly, and all they can get is lousy ass jobs or none at all.

Just see on TV that Chirac is making pledges to adress the situation in the Banlieues, providing education and help for the youngsters out there. Hope he keeps it, because it's damn necessary.

Sarkozy should keep his mouth shut, and start diving into some of the causes of this all instead simply adressing the symptoms with muscle language, it won't solve shit.

Seriously Runningman...the world ain't just red and grean laserbeams, there's a whole lo more colours

[thesightless]

Re: France??

Yao the Irish and Italians came to North America with absolutely nothing. We made it just fine. I am sure they can make it if they would ever work. The problem is they don't want to work.

agreed

everyone who came to america came with nothing early on.

its the ""look at me, im stuck in a bad place in life, help me"" attitude that fucks it all up. yes there are places in central africa where they are pretty much fucked in terms of getting a great education and moving on, but elsewhere, i have no pity. to stick it to this topic, these fuckers in france ruining life for the rest, well go back to morocco where you can beat your wife if someone sees her in public, where you cant do shit without your imam's consent, etc etc. seriously, france invited you to thier country, not questioning shit, giving you an oppurtunity to ""try"" not to sit in your shitty neighborhood and whine about how the gov't ignores you. go out and get a job, save money move on, put your kids in school and make them study. god this thread is turning me into cartman. fucking equality BS. we can offer it, we shouldnt force it. if they dont wanna better their lives, then too bad for them. sad thing is, if this goes down a worse path, the same ppl who want us to understand why we should treat everyone better and help make thier lives better will be the same ppl picketing the UN and the USA when troops are sent in to stop violence and corrupt gov't.