The Devil

[bart_smastard]

Re: The Devil

CDJ If God existed . Correction my appologies .. I'll start again. If religion explained Gods existence then why would there be so many , there are good righteous muslims/hindu's/jews and christians . Plenty of devoute people from other sects and religions too . All these ppl want to live their lives in accordance to gods laws and teachings . All of these religions state that by following a different religion you will be denied passage to paradise. Or in Hindu's / Buhdaisim case it will determain what form you come back in in your next life . Here's my point if religion was valid and God cared he would bring these ppl under one banner and not let them spend a wasted life of false worship .
God may exist but "your" god dosn't

[cowardly dj]

Re: The Devil

I just had this thought.

I know that God exists because there is no substance or base to any other religion or god or diety and especially man's thoughts. Every man is for himself. Think about anything you do in your life is for you. Look how we manipulate the people around us to make our life easier. It is inherent in every single person on the planet that has ever lived. I challenge anyone to find something they are doing that will not in some way be beneficial to them. If you look deep down inside yourself you will know what I mean. Mankind is selfish in every aspect of its existence. The Bible says it is our core sin.
So having said that here is why I think the Bible is right about the creation of man. Let me paint you the Biblical version of why man is so selfish in everything we do.
Genesis 3 tells us that God told Adam and Eve not to eat of the fruit which is in the middle of the garden because when thy do they will die. Eve was tempted and here is what she was told "and the serpent said to the woman,"you shall surely not die! For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be open and you will be like God , knowing good and evil" (Genesis 3:4-5). Eve had a choice. She was told not to eat by God and she was told to eat by satan. She chose to eat. She wanted to be like God. She made a choice for self over other. It was the first sin spoken of in the Bible. It is the core sin of all mankind. It is the sin that broke our bond with God. All we do as people is do for ourselves. We are even so selfish as to take the lives of other people for a few dollars. All humans are motivated by the same thing---self. If The Bible is the only literature on our creator that exists that describes our core humanism and has no flaws in it's desription.

Find me anything anyone does that is not self-motivated

Look how foolish man is to think he can define and describe his own creation. It is like windows XP telling microsoft "you did not program me. I evolved from a single nanobit of information." No matter how hard the program tried and how convincing some lines of the program seemed, can the program really tell the programmer how it came to be?

[picklemonkey]

Re: The Devil



how does pregnancy happen? it starts when two different cells fuse together... from there, the cells constantly divide and grow until a fetus exists. imo the same thing happened when man and woman came about... some cells fused together from some freak accident like lightning or something, and over the next however million years just evolved until we reached what we are today.

[neoee]

Re: The Devil

Just another infallable proof of God's existence outside of the Bible. You can not say God does not exist without entertaining the idea He might.

I've mentioned this before in another thread but here it is again. We are the ONLY known species which can contemplate our own deaths. I mean just think about that for a sec, no other animal even realizes it is going to die someday. Now with that in mind, because we are so advanced (relatively speaking) are we simply aware of God or did we just create him to help ease the fear of the unknown after we die?

That makes sense to you neoee because it is the truth. He does not go outside his own rules but I ask, How do you know what his rules are if you have never sought them out?

After reading your reply it got me thinking a bit about quantam physics, how we can look at something one second and its one thing and look again and its another (states), so I guess we are still learning his rules from a scientific perspective, but I still doubt their could be any way in which the star scenerio could be realized, but there's still the chance that I'm wrong.

I was reading this paper on time travel not too long ago. The paper theorized how previous known states could not be changed. Eg., if your dad exists today you cannot travel back into the past and kill him since he exists in the future. Why I bring this up is because when the parting of the red sea was looked at they found where Jesus split it was the shallowest part and also with the right wind it could certianly have happened. Now back to my previous states being known comment. Since the state of the riverbed was unknown by anyone it was changeable, had it been known, it would not have been. This is what I mean by God playing by his own rules. But again the star scenerio, as mentioned previously by others, is outside of the rules that govern our universe. At least as we currently understand them.

As to seeking God's rules from a religious prespective, I have sought them out. Its the very reason we are having this discussion. I am open to different views from others. Its how I have chosen to seek out the truth. I don't believe one book contains all the answers, nor do I believe that there are really any right or wrong paths only ones that allow me to believe in a God. I've gone from previously considering myself an aethist to beliving, that in itself is a huge step. Many religions will tell you that God is infinite, as such I believe that he would not produce only one path to him, rather all paths lead to him.

Anyhow I've rambled long enough but before I end, you failed to address my failed grade analogy and I'd really like to know your take after having considered my view on it.

[Yao]

Re: The Devil

I just had this thought.

I know that God exists because there is no substance or base to any other religion or god or diety and especially man's thoughts. Every man is for himself. Think about anything you do in your life is for you. Look how we manipulate the people around us to make our life easier. It is inherent in every single person on the planet that has ever lived. I challenge anyone to find something they are doing that will not in some way be beneficial to them. If you look deep down inside yourself you will know what I mean. Mankind is selfish in every aspect of its existence. The Bible says it is our core sin.
So having said that here is why I think the Bible is right about the creation of man. Let me paint you the Biblical version of why man is so selfish in everything we do.
Genesis 3 tells us that God told Adam and Eve not to eat of the fruit which is in the middle of the garden because when thy do they will die. Eve was tempted and here is what she was told "and the serpent said to the woman,"you shall surely not die! For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be open and you will be like God , knowing good and evil" (Genesis 3:4-5). Eve had a choice. She was told not to eat by God and she was told to eat by satan. She chose to eat. She wanted to be like God. She made a choice for self over other. It was the first sin spoken of in the Bible. It is the core sin of all mankind. It is the sin that broke our bond with God. All we do as people is do for ourselves. We are even so selfish as to take the lives of other people for a few dollars. All humans are motivated by the same thing---self. If The Bible is the only literature on our creator that exists that describes our core humanism and has no flaws in it's desription.

Find me anything anyone does that is not self-motivated

Look how foolish man is to think he can define and describe his own creation. It is like windows XP telling microsoft "you did not program me. I evolved from a single nanobit of information." No matter how hard the program tried and how convincing some lines of the program seemed, can the program really tell the programmer how it came to be?

Well, like, in nature the most selfish animal survives. Pretty simple. Jesus was an Utopist.

[cowardly dj]

Re: The Devil

if you guys think the star scenarion is impossible then I would like you guys take on the time God stopped the sun from going down so one of the battles of his people could be won.

Yes God actually stopped the sun in its tracks to make the day longer.

The designer always knows the "back doors" to its creation.

[cowardly dj]

Re: The Devil

I've mentioned this before in another thread but here it is again. We are the ONLY known species which can contemplate our own deaths. I mean just think about that for a sec, no other animal even realizes it is going to die someday. Now with that in mind, because we are so advanced (relatively speaking) are we simply aware of God or did we just create him to help ease the fear of the unknown after we die?

If you read the Genesis account of creation you will see that after Adam and Eve ate, they became mortal. God designed Adam and Eve to live forever. When God told them not to eat of the fruit or they would surely die, He did not mean instant death like it was poison or something. It meant they would die eventually after their body failed. Death came to man through sin. We know from that one sin, we will all eventually die in the body but our soul lives on in one of two places.

It is part of us now and we can not deny it. Why do you think you look for more after this life. It is your programming.

we were designed to live forever. That is why we are the only species to contemplate our death.

[BSully828]

Re: The Devil

Look how foolish man is to think he can define and describe his own creation.

If man is (and I agree with you here) incapable of defining and describing his own creation, then how the hell/heaven/purgatory can he define and describe his own creator? Continuing with your WXP analogy what is the easier process to understand: the process of creating an Excel spreadsheet or the process of the computer programs that create the images you see on the screen?

For us, creating the spreadsheet is as easy as point and click ? want to create an intricate formula to count up a series of values? Auto format cells for specific results? Click the icon, input the data and presto. But define and describe the process going on within your computer ? the way that little machine translates a series of 1?s and 0?s to create everything from font to function. All we do is hit a key on the keyboard and within an instant the computer has received the signal, translated the information, created the corresponding symbol and presents it on screen. The sequence of procedures that takes place within my computer is totally beyond me, and I suspect beyond most people as well.

By the same token, creating life is as easy as that spreadsheet:

Step 1: Insert rod A into slot B
Step 2: Remove
Step 3: Repeat with vigor.

Now try and tell me the process behind it. Not the physical process ? science has done a good job of that ? but the personal (or, if you like) spiritual process. How that little zygote goes from a pair of cells to the creature that walks the earth complete with its own appearance, personality, wants, fears, ect.. ect..

It is a process beyond anything our minds are capable of handling yet you say organized religion ? check that ? your and only your organized religion has somehow figured it out? Impossible. I?m sorry CDJ, you can?t say that man is foolish for trying to define and describe his creation and in the same breath say there is only one true description and definition for his creator.

[evangelion]

Re: The Devil

if you guys think the star scenarion is impossible then I would like you guys take on the time God stopped the sun from going down so one of the battles of his people could be won.

Yes God actually stopped the sun in its tracks to make the day longer.

The designer always knows the "back doors" to its creation.

You have got to be kidding me.

Seriously man, if the Bible told you god was green, made of Jell-o and good to eat you'd probably believe that too. Remember what it was like to think for yourself. Those were good days, weren't they??

[BSully828]

Re: The Devil

Here's a few thoughts about the Bible that should be considered no matter WHAT you believe:

1 -- Like I’ve said before, the Bible (and with that Christianity in general) was not the first to use the symbols like the garden, forbidden fruit, virgin birth, death and resurrection as the sacred tenets of the faith - not by a long shot. The ideas preceeded Christianity by more than a millennia, the authors (plural) of the Bible were just presenting an updated version of an age old story.

2 -- When the Bible was originally written there were scores of different versions running around with completely different takes on some of the main themes. For example, one said that the father and the son were one in the same (total blasphemy by today’s “standards”). That sect of Christianity had an ardent following that rivaled the sect that said otherwise. It had just as many followers, churches, priests and pulpits as the other but spoke a totally different idea.

There were literally dozens of groups just like this running about which kept the religion fractured. The leading minds of the time came together to form the Council of Nicea, which was in essence a huge editing session. At this assembly the members of the council literally handpicked which books would make up the official Biblical canon. Imagine that! The pages that have defined the course of Western Civilization were created by a group of men sitting at table trying to figure out how best to keep the power they had at the time.

3 -- Believe it or not, but the Bible was not originally written in English – astonishing, I know. And anyone who has studied a foreign language knows that not all words and phrases have a 1:1 correspondence from one language to another. It should come to no surprise then that the original language of the Bible, Hebrew, has lingo that aren’t found in modern English or old English for that matter.

Did you know that in one of those versions of the holy text I mentioned in #2, there were no words that translate to the words “good” or “evil”. Not one! My that puts quite a spin on the overall message, doesn't it? Instead of “good” or “evil” the translation was for words that meant “ripe” or “unripe” – which leans towards the more agricultural symbolism that was prevalent in the religions that preceded Catholicism. The idea was that life was a cycle of renewal and that which may be “bad” in not eternally bad but, like a rotten fruit, bad in its current form. That fruit will perish though and return to the earth, the Mother earth and be born again, born anew (resurrection…hmm that theme found anywhere else in the good book?).

For centuries people have dissected every letter of every word found in the Bible, looking for some greater meaning. They’ve even found codes and patterns that point to some great system of messages within the pages. They’re looking so close that they fail to realize that those words were not originally photocopied and faxed, but handwritten by men in dark rooms with cramped hands and tired eyes. Those writers had ideas of their own, taking a little creative liberty here and there or maybe making some corrections that they see fit. An exact science this was not, neither then should its study be.

What is important is the meaning that lies beneath the names and places – all the trivial minutiae that clutters the pages and dilutes the message. All of that nonsense is what splinters the world religions and has caused grief and anguish for centuries. Those who wave their particular book and claim it to be the one and only one way have missed the message entirely and ruin that which they claim to honor most – the idea of “God”.

[asdf_admin]

Re: The Devil

it is a hoax. you all are going to hell, even I.

[Morgan]

Re: The Devil

7 pages totally off topic.

You may well find that the Forbidden fruit refers to carnal knowlegde, hence once it was obtained it was a sharp exit from eden.

So any ideas on this Satan fella?

[asdf_admin]

Re: The Devil

all I know she likes it hot and is a mean gal. Also she is red because of the fire down there. I think she is Indian or has Indian blood. I am not sure. Would not want to meet her in a dark alley.

[Yao]

Re: The Devil

if you guys think the star scenarion is impossible then I would like you guys take on the time God stopped the sun from going down so one of the battles of his people could be won.

Yes God actually stopped the sun in its tracks to make the day longer.

The designer always knows the "back doors" to its creation.

^^ Holy fuck...next thing you're telling it's the Brothers Grimm that wrote the Bible.

[asdf_admin]

Re: The Devil

i remember my own faith stating the world is flat. also planet earth is the center.

this is my exact issue with faith. people are wrong. God is right.

man has been so wrong so many times, even with his own God.

blah.

My God judges, not me. It is not my job nor place.