The Devil

[evangelion]

Re: The Devil

So any ideas on this Satan fella?

He/it is a fairytale, just like god. Told to little children for thousands of years to make them behave. Told to lesser intelligent people by more intelligent people for thousands of years to control them into believing that if they followed their ideology they would not go to hell...which is also a fairytale. Believed in by millions of others to give them a reason to be a good person and live a good life.

None of these which I believe in or need.

[rubyraks]

Re: The Devil

1. God is a man and made man in his image and made man first.

2. God made Eve as a "helper" for Adam.

3. Eve sinned first by falling to the temptation. Her punishment and all the women after her were to follow behind man. Pain in childbirth is a direct punishment for Eve's sin for all women. Since God made the decree that woman was mans helper man naturally has the role of leader.

So what you're saying here is sexual discrimination is actually a biblical thing and there's nothing wrong with that? and that's an all-loving god, right?

You have to spend time examining each and looking for flaws. The overall content of the claimed religion. I for one do not want to be caught on the wrong side when it all ends so I spend a HUGE amount of time outside work into looking at the Bible and its claims and all the other religions and their claims. The Bible is the only one that is consisten throughtout, flawless. There are flaws in every single religion outside of the Bible and its God. There have been no proven flaws of the Bible EVER.

I can show you the flaws in any religion. Just ask.

So based on that, there can't be any flaws within Judiasm either since Christianity builds upon the Old Testament...which accorcing to you is flawless. So how do you decide between the two. If they're both flawless, what makes Christianity more "correct"?

the word knowledge is often misused to mean knowledge equal to God's. That is not the case it refers to the knowledge of good and evil. To sum it up in easy terms it was a load of guilt Adam and Eve felt for doing what God asked them not to do. It had absolutely nothing to do with the fruit. It was the concept of chosing to obey or not to obey. A free choice for them and us as well.

as far as the do whatever else you like.... Adam and Eve were created sinless and designed to live forever. They were never goin to die. so to them do whatever you like did not include any sin until they ate of the tree and their eyes were opened

Are you here limiting the meaning of the word "knowledge" to just right and wrong? Isn't that nothing but changing the terms to fit your argument. And even with your changed terms, so you're saying first thing god says is I don't want you to know right from wrong, you just need to listen to me. If I don't know right and wrong and my only option to know that is through god, aren't I then limiting my ability to choose (without an understanding of which actions have which consequences leaves no real choice...just a guess)?

religion has not spawned a single war. man has using his take on religion to do what he wanted in his greed.

there is an absolute truth to God and his word. To know this truth you have to study it in great depth. It has to be your sole existence. If you do not then you can misunderstand something about it.

This has happened time and time again and will always happen.
God's word can not be blamed for man taking it and twisting it to meet his needs. Instead of looking to blame religion for the wrong, why dont we blame the person who misunderstood and misused it.

Why don't we blame the god who created man and allowed him to have these misunderstandings? Why does this god allow these misunderstandings to perpetuate and grow over time rather than putting an end to them?

you have to acknowledge that fact that something has to be able to exist in order to suggest that it does not exist.

Just another infallable proof of God's existence outside of the Bible. You can not say God does not exist without entertaining the idea He might.

Are you actually serious here? Cause I could just as easily reverse the logic of this argument to show how "infallable" proof of god's non-existence is based on your reasoning.

[Yao]

Re: The Devil

[picklemonkey]

Re: The Devil



ok... bear with me on this. more than one religion says that if you don't believe their religion, you're going to hell. that means, if you don't believe christianity, you're going to hell... and if you don't believe in catholicism, you're going to hell. don't forget both religions are the "right" one. therefore, isn't everyone going to hell? so why not just be agnostic and quit being scared about the fires of hell.

[cowardly dj]

Re: The Devil

You know what really bothers me the most about all of your recent "teachings" CDJ?? It is a prime example of the hypocrisy that most religious people show in one way or another. Wasn't your "King Shit" story about trying to fuck some chick?? Now I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you were not married to this girl. And I'm also going to guess that being as "enlightened" as you are in god's holy ways that sex outside of marriage is a sin. A sin that someone so devoutly Christian would never willingly commit. So tell me, devoute Christian and spreader of the "good news"...how does that work??

This should be good

I was not avoiding the question. In fact it is not a question at all. It is a weapon. You have taken something from my past and are using it in an attempt to discredit me, the things I am saying and my future posts.

I am happy to anwer any questions but this clearly is not a question.

But the question itself is a good question. It has merit and depth despite the manner in which it was put across.

First you say it is hypocrisy. This is a word that is used over and over again in the wrong context. Here is the best description for hypocrisy: insincerity by virtue of pretending to have qualities or beliefs that you do not really have. Saying something is wrong as you do it with no intent to stop. Example, a parent who smokes and tells their children not to smoke as they light up in front of them. That is hypocrisy.

What you have done here is taken a word and put your definition on it and tried to corner me with it.

So keeping in mind the definition of hypocrisy I do not qualify as a hypocrit for 2 reasons.
1. I was not a faithul Christian until about 2-3 years ago. Anything in my past that was contrary to what I speak of now are two seperate scenarios and can not be combined. It is like comparing apples and oranges. Sure they are both fruit but not of the same tree.
2. I am not pretending to follow God, I do follow God and what he says.

Does that clear anything up for you?

[cowardly dj]

Re: The Devil

ok... bear with me on this. more than one religion says that if you don't believe their religion, you're going to hell. that means, if you don't believe christianity, you're going to hell... and if you don't believe in catholicism, you're going to hell. don't forget both religions are the "right" one. therefore, isn't everyone going to hell? so why not just be agnostic and quit being scared about the fires of hell.

Anyone can say their way is the right way. I can say that you have to pick your nose 5 times a day facing the south pole or you will suffer greatly forever and ever. Just because I say semething does not make it so. It needs a base.

I have a question to ask anyone:

How many things do you have to find wrong with somthing to discredit it?

one....two....ten.....????

People have been trying to disprove the Bible for as long as it has been around. There has never been a single flaw found in the Bible.

I am working on a paper I will put up here soon I hope. It will be called the Bible vs. the Koran.

When you put the Bible next to any other religious text you will soon see the infallability of the Bible and how mans invented religions are just that........invented.

[Yao]

Re: The Devil

Anyone can say their way is the right way. I can say that you have to pick your nose 5 times a day facing the south pole or you will suffer greatly forever and ever. Just because I say semething does not make it so. It needs a base.

I have a question to ask anyone:

How many things do you have to find wrong with somthing to discredit it?

one....two....ten.....????

People have been trying to disprove the Bible for as long as it has been around. There has never been a single flaw found in the Bible.

I am working on a paper I will put up here soon I hope. It will be called the Bible vs. the Koran.

When you put the Bible next to any other religious text you will soon see the infallability of the Bible and how mans invented religions are just that........invented.

You can stop working on that paper as far as I'm concerned CDJ: I'd be willing to read it if it would give me a little more insight into either religion, but to me this will look as if you are comparing Lord of the Rings with Star Wars and try to prove that one of the two is better because the other story contains 'flaws'.

[picklemonkey]

Re: The Devil

DT 6:5, MT 22:37, MK 12:30, LK 10:27 Love God.
DT 6:13, PS 33:8, 34:9, 111:10, 115:13, 128:1, 147:11, PR 8:13, 16:6, 19:23, 22:4, IS 8:13, LK 12:5, 1PE 2:17 Fear God.
1JN 4:18 There is no fear in love.

PR 30:5 Every word of God proves true.
1KI 22:23, 2CH 18:22, JE 4:10, JE 20:7, EZ 14:9 God deceives some of the prophets.

JE 8:8 The scribes falsify the word.
2TH 2:11-12 God deceives the wicked (to be able to condemn them).
(Note: Every word of God cannot prove true if God deceives anyone at all; the Bible cannot be trusted if the scribes falsify the word. The first reference is mutually exclusive with the other three. Thus, the Bible cannot be the perfect work of a perfect and loving God since one or more of the above references is obviously untrue. Note also: Some versions use the word "persuade" rather than "deceives." The context makes clear, however, that deception is involved.)

EZ 20:25 God says that he intentionally gave out bad laws. (This means that God-given laws or commandments are sometimes suspect.)

LK 1:26-38 The angel who appears to Mary to foretell the birth of Jesus says that Jesus will be given the throne of David, that he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and that his kingdom will never end. (None of this took place nor can it now be fulfilled.)

MT 16:28, MK 9:1, LK 9:27 Jesus says that some of his listeners will not taste death before he comes again in his kingdom. This was said almost 2000 years ago. (Note: This and many other passages indicate that Jesus was to come again in a relatively short period of time and not just "quickly" as present day Biblicists assert. All of his listeners are now dead, yet Jesus has not come again in his kingdom. All of the alleged words of Jesus recorded in the Bible are therefore suspect.)

MK 16:17-18 A believer can handle snakes or drink poison and not experience any harm. (Note: Many unfortunate believers have died as a result of handling snakes and drinking poison. This kind of assertion negates the Bible as a useful guidebook for life.)

[cowardly dj]

Re: The Devil

You can stop working on that paper as far as I'm concerned CDJ: I'd be willing to read it if it would give me a little more insight into either religion, but to me this will look as if you are comparing Lord of the Rings with Star Wars and try to prove that one of the two is better because the other story contains 'flaws'.

I do what I do for those who want to know, not those who do not. You can lead a horse to water but you can not make it drink.

[picklemonkey]

Re: The Devil

You can stop working on that paper as far as I'm concerned CDJ: I'd be willing to read it if it would give me a little more insight into either religion, but to me this will look as if you are comparing Lord of the Rings with Star Wars and try to prove that one of the two is better because the other story contains 'flaws'.

yeah, i won't be reading it either. I hate to say it, but I already don't believe, and this isn't going to convert me.

I need to just go buy a bible and read it cover to cover. I guess then I'll have "reason" to hate it... other than the fact that it's a story that some dudes wrote.

[Jenks]

Re: The Devil

. You can lead a horse to water but you can not make it drink.

You can lead a horse to a mirage, and the horse will wonder, "Where's the fucking water chief???"

[picklemonkey]

Re: The Devil

David had seven brothers.
1 Samuel 16:10-11
David had six brothers.
1 Chronicles 2:13-15

Ahaziah was 22 when he began to reign.
2 Kings 8:26
Ahaziah was 42 when he began to reign.
2 Chronicles 22:2

The men with Saul heard a voice, but they saw no one.
Acts 9:7
The men with Saul saw a light, but they did not hear the voice.
Acts 22:9


"Modern Christians believe that their god loves everyone, and that they are all equal. However, after Adam and Eve had eaten from the tree forbidden by god, this deity said to Eve "I will intensify the pangs of your childbearing; in pain shall you bring forth children. Yet your urge shall be for your husband, and he shall be your master." (Genesis 3:16). This tells us that, according to the Christian religion, women shall naturally be dominated by men. This kind of behavior is not conducive to a being who believes in inherent equality. Women are repeadtedly treated as objects and told to be submissive in the Bible."

[hulkhuss]

Re: The Devil

I need to just go buy a bible and read it cover to cover. I guess then I'll have "reason" to hate it... other than the fact that it's a story that some dudes wrote.

yes or you might become amazed how this "story" relates to your everyday life as you read it

[rubyraks]

Re: The Devil

I do what I do for those who want to know, not those who do not. You can lead a horse to water but you can not make it drink.

You can lead a horse to a mirage, and the horse will wonder, "Where's the fucking water chief???"

but seriously, you could also lead a horse to poisoned water and they may drink from it anyways...

When you put the Bible next to any other religious text you will soon see the infallability of the Bible and how mans invented religions are just that........invented.

I'm bothered that you would say this having not responded to my one of my points. The Christian Bible is the Jewish Bible plus additionall texts. Hence if all of the Christian Bible is true so too is the Jewish one. So where's the fallacy in that? How do you disprove Judaism?

[rubyraks]

Re: The Devil

I need to just go buy a bible and read it cover to cover. I guess then I'll have "reason" to hate it... other than the fact that it's a story that some dudes wrote.

You absolutely should...it truly is one of the greatest books ever written (and I'm not making a joke here). It's got everything: drama, action, comedy, romance, births (and damn what a long list of em it has just in the second chapter alone), deaths, self-help, authority figures, rewards and punishments...well worth a read.

Oh yeah and if you're confused about evolution, grab a read of the first chapter...it'll explain it clearly and concisely.