The Devil

[BSully828]

Re: The Devil

Isnt it posssible that people being imperfect can misunderstand and misuse something if we just take other peoples word on what it says?

Its not just possible - it actual and it happens every time you read the Bible.

Unless you are fluent in ancient Hebrew and have an original edition of the good book in its entirety, then you are subject to those same imperfect people you mentioned above.

I'd venture to guess the only Bible you have read is one written in English (not knocking you here, just making a point), it is a translated copy and one that is as flawed and as "misunderstood" as anything by Darwin or whoever wrote the first paper on carbon dating.

[Jenks]

Re: The Devil

Based on cdj's 5 points, lol, this is where i bow out of this discussion for good, as it is a waste of time because you'll just get the same thing over and over.

[cowardly dj]

Re: The Devil

What consolation is it that for example Western countries are still leeching on LDC's, extracing their natural resources to keep their economies growing, thus causing millions of people to die from diseases (expensive medication), hunger, war, poverty etc etc?? Fucking nice idea for a devout Christian African kid to lose it's parents, get recruited into a child soldier army, lose a limb and get traumatized beyond belief, get caught by the opposition and get tortured to death?

(Yep...that question brought up my real anger with religion and Gods in general again...sorry mate, but that one came from my guts)

However you are blaming God for things man has done. God does not meddle with the acts of men. If man wants to do evil things to his fellow man then it is the mans choice.

[cowardly dj]

Re: The Devil

Actually asdf, the bible says plainly contradicting things. I don't have to read anything into this stuff.

http://ffrf.org/books/lfif/?t=contra

Jenks, I assure you I can give you an explanation for anything you think the Bible contradicts itself on. And I will go to that site to take a peek around.

But first I want to ask you if you agree with the only way to see if the Bible contradicts itself is to go to the Bible to see.

[BSully828]

Re: The Devil

Actually that is not quite the correct descripton of the Bible.

There was no oral passing down of the Bible for a few reasons.

1. If you understand the Bible explanation on how it was written then you understand that men could not have messed it up.

But in order to do that you have to believe that the Bible is the word of the "one true God". For those who believe, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy: "I believe what the Bible says because the Bible says what I believe".

2. The Law of Moses was given to Moses on the mountain by God........ The Ten Commandments were not the only thing given to Moses.

And the myth of the life/flight/destiny of Moses is one that was in use in various forms loooong before the Bible.

3.God spoke through prophets that recorded the words God gave them. They wrote on scrolls.

Then why are there such varying accounts depending on which sect you follow? The Essenes and the Gnostics for example both claimed to hear the word of God yet their writings are like night and day.

4. The Bible was penned over a period of 1400 - 1800 years by 40 men.

The Bible (in its various forms) was written, rewritten, edited, deleted, reformed and rehashed countless times by countless people for hundreds of years.

5. The actual Bible was authored by God and not man. God gave the men the words to say. The men only penned what the Holy Spirit guided them to write.

But, like I said before, it all depends on which "stenographer" you believe. If you take the Bible in its current incarnation, you are reading the work as approved by the Council of Nicea centuries ago. What about the Book of Thomas? Book of Mary? Book of Enoch? Legitimate chapters of the Bible in their day that were snuffed out of existance because they didn't fit into the designs of those in power.

That is the Biblical explanation on its origin.

And as such, no real explanation at all.

[cowardly dj]

Re: The Devil

Look how many different conversations I am having in this thread.........

[asdf_admin]

Re: The Devil

Jenks. I gave that site a whirl. And I can see it's valid points, but I also know how man can manipulate text, facts, data, and statistics to his own doing. This text is from a non-believer perspective, so in due course the whole book of God is fiction. I am sure that if you were to use the context that these verses came from perhaps there would be an explanation and justification. I am not here to preach, nor defend my own faith. For I myself have issues with certain parts of the Bible.

It is hard to explain something that has really no physical element. To believe in God and his book is not an easy thing. Things in my life have lead me to the path of faith. I feel I am blessed for what I see and feel. It does not make me better nor worse. It is my strength. I hope what I fight for and what I believe to be true, and it it really comes to that ... truth. In my heart I feel it is right and true. As much as I wish I could share that with other people, I know I can not. Nor do I think it is my duty. Upon my death, the truth of my faith and believe will be either granted or it will not. Until that time, I will continue my God loving ways until my own last breath of this planet air. No text, no words, not anything will ever take that away from me. Strange it is, and strange it will be.

[cowardly dj]

Re: The Devil

OK again it is misunderstood that I am trying to convert you guys to Christianity by using the Bible which none of you believe is credible. That is not the case.

So when someone says something about the Bible.....(for instance saying the Bible was written by men).... you must know what the Bible says about the subject and not a man. I dare to venture that very few of you if any who are in these conversations have a Bible near you and have referenced it against what I type. Being aware of that I answer Bible questions with Bible answers.

It is all about the explanation, not the belief.

[Jenks]

Re: The Devil

Jenks, I assure you I can give you an explanation for anything you think the Bible contradicts itself on. And I will go to that site to take a peek around.

Thanks but no thanks CDJ. I have no interest in having you rehash what the bible already says. If i want your views, i'll just go open the king james, and it's all right there. I do not mean any of these words to be offending, but i feel you are capable of thought beyond bibilical text as has been evident in the many religious discussions on this board. I respect your wish to live your life by the bible. I am spiritual, not religious. We have nothing in common. I stated my views on "god" back on page one (which i'm sure you passed right over.)

I will tell you tho, i have read the bible. I grew up southern baptist (lol, yes the worst kind) and my degree is in literature. I spent a semester reading the bible as a literary piece of work. Taken in that context, the language is indeed amazing, very poetic, and a fantastic story. That's where it stops for me tho. Christianity just doesn't do it for me. I have a better grasp on Buddhism than anything else, and that's a philosophy i can wrap my head around, which i would hope you would respect.

So, all of that said...should you pick up some musical discussion or discussion about Chuck Norris, or cooking dumplings in another thread, i'll surely engage you, until then tho (which is likely never because you stated the only reason you're here is to provide biblical information) we just don't have anything further to discuss, and is a grand waste of energy.

[cowardly dj]

Re: The Devil

I am sure that if you were to use the context that these verses came from perhaps there would be an explanation and justification.

asdf.... that is exactly right. In context it all makes perfect sense.

Of course you can not say that to a person who is talking about a book that they do not think is credible.

Most athiest look at the Bible and do not see anything but a book. That is what hinders them from examining it and actually checking into it. It would be like me reading Shakespear. I would not make it past the first page.

So a Christian on the other hand sees the Bible and believes it was written by God and is infallable.

Those are based on belief. I assure you that if any athiest were to sit down with a Christian and study both sides of the story based on the fact that it was not to convert the athiest then the Bible would be proven to be flawless by its own rights. That is where the athiest looses sight. They can not understand how a person can believe a book. An athiest can not sit down with a Christian and be given an explanation on the Bible based on the Bible because they do not know how to look at the study in the reference if you were studying something like The Lord of the Rings.

They can not differentiate in a study of a book for flaws and a lesson on faith.

In understanding the Bible in depth one can easily see its is flawless in its words...... but you just have to chose to believe if God exists. That is where faith is separated in mankind.

The athist's war is not over the Bible, it is over the existence of God. There is nothing another person can say to an athiest that can change their mind on God's existence. To argue points of the Bible is an argument of faith. the text is only black and white and paper. The context of the document is what is argued over.

An athiest will need something more than the Bible to believe God exists. They look for proof in the way only their human mind can understand. If you can not see it, hear it, touch it, taste it, or smell it then it does not exist.

So my only response to an athiest on believeing in something the senses can not experience and can only be something in your mind then I say......

Have you ever seen, touched, smelled, tasted or heard time?
Do you believe that time exists? and if so then please explain why?

[cowardly dj]

Re: The Devil

So, all of that said...should you pick up some musical discussion or discussion about Chuck Norris, or cooking dumplings in another thread, i'll surely engage you, until then tho (which is likely never because you stated the only reason you're here is to provide biblical information) we just don't have anything further to discuss, and is a grand waste of energy.

I disagree Jenks. It is always good to have you in the discussions. I am not trying to get you to see the Bible as the truth. When talking to you I always take into mind that you do not believe in God. I am not trying to use the Bible to convince you of anything.

I enjoy your conversation as a man to man conversation. It has always been that way for me since I first heard you were an athiest years ago in another discussion

[Jenks]

Re: The Devil

I'm not an atheist. I'm agnostic in a sense. I believe in a higher power, i just don't believe in your god.

"God" is the spirit of all things. Energy, Bob.

[cowardly dj]

Re: The Devil

hmmmm my mistake I thought you were. I apologize for my misconception

[bart_smastard]

Re: The Devil

Have you ever seen, touched, smelled, tasted or heard time?
Do you believe that time exists? and if so then please explain why?

Time is just a rate at which you are traveling .The faster you move in any direction the slower you move in time . Everyone moves at the speed of light at all times ( nice one to put to the boss if he says ure going too slow).
If you walk 5 miles to work , once at work can you taste or touch those five miles no. But you know damn well you have traveled them .

Don't confuse tangable and provable with myth and hearsay.

[toasty]

Re: The Devil

Actually that is not quite the correct descripton of the Bible.

There was no oral passing down of the Bible for a few reasons.

1. If you understand the Bible explanation on how it was written then you understand that men could not have messed it up.

2. The Law of Moses was given to Moses on the mountain by God........ The Ten Commandments were not the only thing given to Moses.

3.God spoke through prophets that recorded the words God gave them. They wrote on scrolls.

4. The Bible was penned over a period of 1400 - 1800 years by 40 men.

5. The actual Bible was authored by God and not man. God gave the men the words to say. The men only penned what the Holy Spirit guided them to write.

That is the Biblical explanation on its origin.

Oh, that explains it. My bad. Nevermind.



Seriously, which version is the correct version? Because even a cursory reading of any two versions of the Bible, you pick 'em, will reveal that that are not word for word identical, or even close...

And if one is correct, what then of the others? Blasphemy? Heretical? Close but no banana?