what do you think of the death penalty

[CrazyMadFlyGirl]

Re: what do you think of the death penalty

3d ..if someone has it in them to intentionaly harm another member of society without provocation . then that person should never be allowed back into society .so FUCK EM

(Hope you don't mind I shortened up the quote..) I agree! Why does it ever make any sense to put people like that back out? Repeat offenders % has got to just be Sick! & the thing that gets me the Worst is these Bastards who get out & then go, get kids, rape, bury alive, tear apart.. What the F&@$ ever sick things they decide (after planning) to do?

So hard to say whether the death penalty is "right" or "wrong" but I just know it IS WRONG & Sick & Horrible that these Messed up people go & commit these inhumane murders & the ones who are 100% guilty by admittance or undeniable evidence (i.e.survailance), with jurors agreeance & then they get to claim insanity... Hmm okay... so that gives even MORE reason to keep your ass away from society then! Being insane AND killing someone doesn't & will never make it better to come back out IMO! In those cases- when it's horrible, brutal or multiple murders (i.e. Andrea Yates- drowning her 5 children ) I don't think they deserve to continue to live

[LV-8]

Re: what do you think of the death penalty

My opinion obviously means nothing but if you have no regard for human life and you brutally kill them for no reason at all then you must die.

I hear people saying that killing a prisoner doesn't bring back the person who was killed. I say your right but I'll feel good knowing that prick will never kill and innocent human again.

[toasty]

Re: what do you think of the death penalty

I've always struggled with the death penalty. On the one hand, I absolutely believe there are crimes that can be committed for which justice would dictate death as an appropriate punishment. On the other hand, it seems barbaric, and I just don't think it is really a deterrent. I really don't know how I feel on this.

With regard to the Tookie Williams thing, the decision to execute him sends two very clear messages:

1. If you kill someone, your own life is at risk.
2. If you are sentenced to death, you have no incentive to do anything other than go out in a blaze of glory.

I think this raises the question of what the criminal justice system is really for. If we believe it is an opportunity for criminals to reform themselves, change their ways, and become productive members of society, we should recognize it when the system works and respond accordingly. If it is strictly for punishment, then we need to stick to our guns on what punishment is appropriate -- life in prison without the opportunity for parole should actually mean that you're going to prison and you're never, ever getting out, period, and none of this clemency bullshit if you are sentenced to die. You've got the appeals process and that's it.

As I'm writing this, my reaction is that I prefer option 1. Hope gives people an incentive to become better people. You look at Tookie Williams -- here's a guy that killed 4 people (and probably more) and was probably indirectly responsible for a lot more than that. Once in prison, he continued on the same general path for a while. Eventually, however, he changed his situation around and began attacking the problems that led him to his situation at the root to the point that he was nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize. Call me a bleeding heart, but I think that might deserve some recognition. I'm not saying he should have been allowed to go free, but it would appear that he was doing far more good than harm from his position in prison -- at this point, a recognition that there is value in letting him live and continue his work in prison doesn't seem like such like a bad thing.

The families of his victims may be pissed, but we thankfully don't have a system of government that allows victims to decide what sort of punishment is appropriate.

My $.02

[maddlingo]

Re: what do you think of the death penalty

Just because Tookie started writing children's books on gang violence are we supposed to feel pity for him, fuck that, I feel sorry for the families of the innocent victims that he slaughtered. He should have been killed years ago and not allowed to lay in prison wasting countless tax dollars.

If Timothy McVay and Jeffrey Dahmer started writing children's books on not blowing up government buildings and why it is bad to kill and eat people would we have felt pity for them, fuck no. They each got what they deserved also.

[picklemonkey]

Re: what do you think of the death penalty

http://www.corr.ca.gov/CommunicationsOffice/facts_figures.asp

Budget: $7.4 billion (2005-2006 Budget Act)
Avg. yearly cost: per inmate, $33,581; per parolee, $3,549
Staff: 49,957 currently employed including 43,076 in Institutions, 3,073 in Parole, and 3,808 in Administration (about 31,225 sworn peace officers)
Total offenders under CDCR jurisdiction: 305,083. One year change: +4273 (1.4%)

if we could remove all the multi-murderers who are condemned to life in prison, we could apply that money to a better cause than keeping a killer alive. hell, most of my friends don't even earn $33k/year, yet we're paying our money to ensure the government spends it on each prisoner?

kill 'em if we have the facts straight.

Lifers: 28,470

even if 5 percent of those that have life sentences are proven murderers, that's 1,400 x 33k=$47.8M PER YEAR. If these guys are on average 30 years old, living there for life (until 80?) that makes 47.8Mx50yrs=$2.4billion wasted to keep those alive that shouldn't be. and that's just california! I vote anybody that willfully kills, kill 'em and allocate the $125B elsewhere. fuck killing only those people that started gangs... kill anyone that killed more than one person imo.

[shosh]

Re: what do you think of the death penalty

tookie started the crips, implicitly responsible for thousands of more deaths.

just because he wrote a children book and sean penn is supporting him, it doesnt mean he should live. we live in a world of consequences. hes lived way too long, much longer than his victims. i hope he rots in hell

[bart_smastard]

Re: what do you think of the death penalty

Toasty do you not think it was the fear of death forcing him to look for a way out . Or do you honnestly believe he was a changed person . Conscience and remorse are traits instilled in us from birth and neurtured through good parenting . If someone put a gun to my head i am prety sure id'e do everything i could to stop them pulling the trigger . We live in an imperfect world with an inperfect justice system . But we should do everything we can to protect whats's decent and what is civilised . Gangs start because one bad person infulences others and then hundreds if not thousands of innocent lives are wrecked because this one asshole put the wheels in motion . The death penalty may seem like revenge , which is wrong and it is barbaric . Howeva just like when you get guys like this Williams who has shown no remorse and no consideration to others in his life , he was given the death penalty and changed . Self preservation makes them become a better person . So show no leniancy and make the message clear that if someone can't function with society they will be removed from it and then erradicated . Self preservation may stop them commiting the crimes in the first place .

[toasty]

Re: what do you think of the death penalty

Toasty do you not think it was the fear of death forcing him to look for a way out . Or do you honnestly believe he was a changed person .

I've never met the guy, so I honestly don't have a clue. What I've read suggests to me that he was indeed a changed person. Did the fear of death change him? Maybe. If he has indeed changed his ways and is more valuable to society alive than dead, does it matter?

Ultimately, I can clearly see both sides of the argument and I really don't feel that strongly about it one way or the other. It's a tough call, IMO.

[bart_smastard]

Re: what do you think of the death penalty

One reason i believed he didn't change and this was all a bit of show for the sake of his pathetic life , was his continual refusal to give evidence against the members of his gang or any help whatsoeva in resolving un-solved crimes . If he had switched to our side why wasn't he helping to fight it .
He only wrote books hoping to prevent others commiting crimes . The death penalty is there to deter others into not commiting crime .
Remove the death penalty and you remove the incentive for the likes of Wiliams to make a difference for the better .
Some might say that's a catch 22 situation . Or chicken/egg situation .. But we all know what came first and what changed what . Leniancy creates crime . Scum festers and grows .

[3d_1200]

Re: what do you think of the death penalty

OJ should be next imo.

[toasty]

Re: what do you think of the death penalty

The death penalty is there to deter others into not commiting crime .
Remove the death penalty and you remove the incentive for the likes of Wiliams to make a difference for the better.

Ah, but by the same token, couldn't you say that the unwavering application of the death penalty removes the incentive for someone to try to make a difference for the better after they've been nabbed? Apart from abstract concepts of personal salvation, conscience, etc., what incentive would someone like Williams have to change his ways once he has been condemned to death? Why not just continue to thug it up in the pokey?

[Jenks]

Re: what do you think of the death penalty

the pokey?

Fitting name for prison imo, and should be enough of a deterent to keep people from comitting crimes.

[neoee]

Re: what do you think of the death penalty

http://www.corr.ca.gov/Communication...ts_figures.asp


if we could remove all the multi-murderers who are condemned to life in prison, we could apply that money to a better cause than keeping a killer alive. hell, most of my friends don't even earn $33k/year, yet we're paying our money to ensure the government spends it on each prisoner?

kill 'em if we have the facts straight.


even if 5 percent of those that have life sentences are proven murderers, that's 1,400 x 33k=$47.8M PER YEAR. If these guys are on average 30 years old, living there for life (until 80?) that makes 47.8Mx50yrs=$2.4billion wasted to keep those alive that shouldn't be. and that's just california! I vote anybody that willfully kills, kill 'em and allocate the $125B elsewhere. fuck killing only those people that started gangs... kill anyone that killed more than one person imo.

If your primary reason to put em down is to save money then your on the wrong side of the argument:

Florida spent an estimated $57 million on the death penalty from 1973 to 1988 to achieve 18 executions - that is an average of $3.2 million per execution (Miami Herald). It costs six times more to execute a person in Florida than to incarcerate a prisoner for life with no parole. In Texas, a death penalty case costs an average of $2.3 million, about three times the cost of imprisoning someone in a single cell at the highest security level for 40 years (Dallas Morning News). The death penalty costs California $90 million annually beyond the ordinary costs of the justice system - $78 million of that total incurred at the trial level (Sacramento Bee). The New York Department of Correctional Services estimated that implementing the death penalty would cost the state about $118 million annually. To illustrate the cost, it is estimated that the money it would take to implement the death penalty in New York for just five years would be enough to fund 250 additional police officers and build prisons for 6,000 inmates (Lacayo, 1987).

http://www.uvm.edu/~vlrs/doc/deathpenalty.htm

[neoee]

Re: what do you think of the death penalty

Bart, also from the above paper I mentioned:

A study examining executions in Texas between 1984 and 1997 found that the murder rate was steady and that there was no evidence of a deterrent effect.

Another interesting factoid:

Innocent people are executed.
In a 1987 study covering a period between 1900 to 1985, it was found that 350 people were wrongly convicted and sentenced to death; 23 of these people were executed.
Radelet, Bedau, and Putnam 'In Spite of innocence' (1992)

[bart_smastard]

Re: what do you think of the death penalty

Neoee .. Did they actually prove someone else was guilty of these crimes or just that the person convicted may not be guilty .. there is a huge difference . technicalities and inadmissible evidence do not necessarily mean the person was inncoent . just means the case for their defence was stronger . mistakes will be made howeva i will bet that the majority of inmates proved guilty beyond all reasonable doubt on death row had a catalogue of crimes prior to the felon they are awaiting execution for . rehabilitation is rarer than reconviction . and everytime these assholes are released they ruin another life . as i said i don't go in for the retribution aspect of the death penalty but i am totaly with the taking away of their ability to ruin another life