what do you think of the death penalty

[3d_1200]

Re: what do you think of the death penalty

Daveman someone once wrote "id'e rather 100 guilty men go free than one innocent man be incarcarated for a crime he didn't commit" ( or summat like that ) anyhows my opinion is that that is one innocent man locked up and one innocent life wrecked . 100 guilty guys going free can destroy 500 innocent lives . pitty the poor bugger banged up who did nothing wrong but his sacrifice was for the greater good

everyone is not guilty who's in jail, just ask them.

[bart_smastard]

Re: what do you think of the death penalty

3d .. i am a bit of a gambler ( not money wise ) just playing the odds and such . i am not one of those who thinks everyone is innocent until proven guilty . if someone has been proven guilty before they are odds on to be guilty the next time . rehabilitation is rare . ( don't go giving me stories of one persons injustice. look at the percentage of repeat offenders) i moved into rented accomodation awaiting permanant residence somewhere else . and also lost £20k on my property due to the laws inability to crack down on those they know are in the wrong and their ability to prove it . ideal worlds are places for ideal's . the real world is the place for solutions . i don't live far from my old house so i still hear the stories of what go on . my cousin was attacked 4 weeks ago ( jaw broke in 3 places and bleeding on the brain) if the gangs the police knew carried out these unprovoked attacks were stamped down on to start with it would never of esculated . benefit of the doubt is what decent ppl deserve . other such scum don't . guilty by suspicion isn't enough i agree but to prove totataly and utterly without doubt is almost impossible . police arrest no-one without some suspicion and if the jury votes all as one then in my eyes it is proven . nothings beyond all doubt but most of these are worth gambling on . what ifs and maybes cloud judgement and are also there to be abused . too many high profile case in the UK that have been proved to be wrongful injustice saw the assholes escape on what if's maybes and technicalities . not on proof they didn't do it just on proof of maybe they didn't . if someone has it in them to intentionaly harm another member of society without provocation . then that person should never be allowed back into society . liberals and sympathisers have never been touched by the pain these assholes cause . so FUCK EM , LET EM FRY ,LET EM BURN and LET THEM ROT

[DancingQueen]

Re: what do you think of the death penalty

Well the State of California will be following through on a death penalty sentance early tomorrow morning

SACRAMENTO, California (CNN) -- California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has denied clemency for convicted killer Stanley Tookie Williams, who co-founded the Crips street gang.

Schwarzenegger announced the decision Monday shortly after a federal appeals court refused to block Williams' scheduled Tuesday execution.

The court made its decision about nine hours before Williams is to receive a lethal injection.
Williams met with his attorneys and family members Monday at San Quentin State Prison, and he "still believes there will be some intervention in this process," prison spokesman Vernell Crittendon said.

Sunday, California's Supreme Court rejected an emergency request to stay the execution.
Earlier Sunday, attorney Verna Wefald said the legal team was asking for a stay on the basis that Williams should have been allowed to argue that someone else killed one of the four people he was convicted of slaying.

On Friday, the governor described his looming decision as "a very heavy responsibility."
Williams -- who would turn 52 on December 29 -- co-founded the Crips in Los Angeles and was convicted of killing four people in 1979, but has become an anti-gang crusader while on death row.

He has denounced gang violence and written children's books with an anti-gang message, donating the proceeds to anti-gang community groups.

He said he was trying to prevent young people from making the choices he did, which led to a life of crime and a death sentence.

Celebrities, teachers and anti-death-penalty advocates have spoken on his behalf.
Prosecutors maintain Williams should die for what lead prosecutor John Monaghan called "extremely brutal crimes." Monaghan noted that despite his anti-gang activism, Williams has consistently refused to take part in a debriefing with authorities to provide them potentially valuable information about the Crips gangs.

Williams was convicted of killing a 26-year-old Los Angeles convenience store clerk in February 1979, shooting him twice in the back with a 12-gauge shotgun while the victim was face down on the floor.

Less than two weeks later, jurors concluded, he shot and killed an immigrant Chinese couple and their 41-year-old daughter while stealing less than $100 cash from their motel.
Both cases were handled in a single trial, and Williams was sentenced to death in 1981.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/12/12/williams.execution/

[picklemonkey]

Re: what do you think of the death penalty

I'm not sure that 4 deaths warrants a death penalty... but it definitely isn't unjustified. kill him imo

[DancingQueen]

Re: what do you think of the death penalty

It's for more then the deaths...he created one of the largest gangs in US history

[peloquin]

Re: what do you think of the death penalty

i figure he's sat there for 20 years, let him sit there for the rest of his life...

[picklemonkey]

Re: what do you think of the death penalty

It's for more then the deaths...he created one of the largest gangs in US history

agreed... but that doesn't mean he did anything wrong. he just assembled a bunch of people together. we never killed Moses, Buddha, John Smith, or Jesus for starting their cults.





oh wait.










we should kill Encryption for starting MercuryServer... one of the largest progressive messageboards in the world that's dedicated to John Digweed

[toasty]

Re: what do you think of the death penalty

You know, if we could just kill people on death row quickly rather than waiting so long that they reform and start to do good things for society, we could avoid the sort of moral dilemma we're in now with Tookie Williams.



[unabashedly pirated from The Onion]

[DancingQueen]

Re: what do you think of the death penalty

agreed... but that doesn't mean he did anything wrong. he just assembled a bunch of people together. we never killed Moses, Buddha, John Smith, or Jesus for starting their cults.





oh wait.

haha

[palmer]

Re: what do you think of the death penalty

Killing people for killing others is not a solution. However we are pretty long foregone down this path of declaring war on everything.... including crime.

[GregWhelan]

Re: what do you think of the death penalty

It's a very philosophical question I suppose isn't it? it seems that lots of views, while conflicting, are valid

Killing someone because they killed doesnt seem right.

However I'm a firm believer that people need to be punished. I'm not one of these PC people who fannies about, it's time society woke up and dealt with it's problems.

Why not just put them in a room, with no windows, and sling 3 shitty meals a day in there - that would not cost anything would it? Don't let them out, don't give them privileges, just let them rot. Harsh but fuck it, if they murdered a whole family they lose their rights IMO.

And again there is no proof that the detah penalty ever prevented murder

[3d_1200]

Re: what do you think of the death penalty

3d .. i am a bit of a gambler ( not money wise ) just playing the odds and such . i am not one of those who thinks everyone is innocent until proven guilty . if someone has been proven guilty before they are odds on to be guilty the next time .

i was just joking.

when i've watched prison documentaries and what not, most people are always proclaiming there innocence, even tho 'criminal' is practically written on there forehead

so ya, just a joke.

har har.

oh but for the record, i think it's very important to presume innocence before guilt. i cant imagine anything worse then being in jail for a cime you did not commit.

[DancingQueen]

Re: what do you think of the death penalty

Well they went through with it....took about 34min apparently

SAN QUENTIN, California (CNN) -- Stanley Tookie Williams -- the co-founder of the violent Crips street gang who became an anti-gang crusader while on death row -- died by lethal injection early Tuesday for the 1979 killings of four people in two Los Angles robberies.

Terry Thornton, a spokeswoman for the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, said the unofficial time of death was 12:35 a.m. (3:35 a.m. ET).
Williams, 51, while acknowledging he had a violent past, had maintained he was innocent in the slayings.

It marked the second execution in California this year, and just the 12th since the death penalty was reinstated in the 1970s.

Williams' case set off intense debates over the death penalty and redemption, with celebrities, activists and anti-death penalty advocates saying his initiatives and anti-gang message from behind bars had proven his life was worth saving. He had even been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize and the Nobel Prize in Literature by an array of college professors, a Swiss lawmaker and others.

Seventeen reporters witnessed the execution and gave their accounts afterward.
The process of inserting the IVs to administer the lethal chemicals took about 20 minutes, with staff having particular difficulty getting a needle into Williams' left arm.
Crystal Carreon of the Sacramento Bee newspaper said Williams was restless during the preparations -- a sentiment echoed by San Quentin State Prison Warden Steven Ornoski.

"He did seemed frustrated that it didn't go as quickly as he thought it might," Ornoski.
A crowd of demonstrators began gathering outside the gates of the prison early Monday evening, with celebrities, activists and anti-death-penalty advocates pleading for Williams' life to be spared.

"I am saddened that we are continuing to demean human life by pretending that we are God and making determinations to kill other individuals for what it is claimed they have done," former "M*A*S*H" star and death penalty opponent Mike Farrell told CNN.
The execution process began at 12:01 a.m. (3:01 a.m. ET) in the execution chamber at San Quentin -- 34 minutes later, prison officials confirmed Williams had died.

The announcement of Williams' death was punctuated in the witness gallery by three of his invited supporters, who shouted in unison, "The state of Californian just killed an innocent man," as they exited.

Minutes earlier in the gallery, reporters said at least one of the three had given Williams a raised fist salute.

The execution went ahead as scheduled after the U.S. Supreme Court late Monday rejected a last-ditch appeal.

The high court's ruling followed California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's decision to deny clemency for Williams.

"Based on the cumulative weight of the evidence, there is no reason to second-guess the jury's decision of guilt or raise significant doubts or serious reservations about Williams' convictions and death sentence," Schwarzenegger said in a five-page statement explaining his decision.

Before Williams went to the execution chamber, the stepmother of one of the men Williams was convicted of killing said she felt "justice is going to be done tonight."
"I had faith that when Governor Arnold looked at the facts of the case that he was going to decide not to do clemency," said Lora Owens, whose stepson, Albert Owens, was shot to death in a convenience store holdup. "I don't like it being said it's a political decision. It was an evidence decision."

Williams had maintained his innocence since his arrest and conviction in the brutal 1979 slayings. He had denounced gang violence and written children's books with an anti-gang message, donating the proceeds to anti-gang community groups.

As Williams was being moved to a holding cell next to the death chamber Monday evening, his lead attorney, John Harris, had said the convict was "at peace."

His lawyers late Monday filed another request for clemency from Schwarzenegger, citing the statements of three new witnesses Harris said could provide exculpatory evidence. That request was also denied.

Protesters for and against the death penalty gathered outside the gates of San Quentin early Monday evening.

Civil rights leader Jesse Jackson, who visited with Williams, said Schwarzenegger decided "to choose revenge over redemption and to use Tookie Williams as a trophy in the flawed system."

"To kill him is a way of making politicians look tough," Jackson said. "It does not make it right. It does not make any of us safer. It does not make any of us more secure."

And Sister Helen Prejean, a Roman Catholic nun and a prominent death penalty opponent, compared the death penalty to "gang justice."

"Gang justice is, if you kill a member of our gang, we kill you -- and don't tell me anything about how you changed your life or what you're going to do," she said. "You kill, and we kill you. And that's what the United States of America is doing with this."
But Schwarzenegger questioned the sincerity of Williams' conversion to nonviolence.
"Is Williams' redemption complete and sincere, or is it just a hollow promise?"

Schwarzenegger wrote. "Without an apology and atonement for these senseless and brutal killings there can be no redemption."

He added: "In this case, the one thing that would be the clearest indication of complete remorse and full redemption is the one thing Williams will not do."

Williams was sentenced to death in 1981 in the killing of Owens, a 26-year-old Los Angeles convenience store clerk, in February 1979. The clerk was shot twice in the back with a 12-gauge shotgun while face-down on the floor.

Less than two weeks later, jurors concluded, Williams killed an immigrant Chinese couple and their 41-year-old daughter while stealing less than $100 in cash from their motel. Part of the daughter's head was blown off in the shooting.

Robert Martin, one of the prosecutors who sent Williams to prison, said the courts "have scrutinized this from every angle and they've found that the evidence is rock solid." He questioned whether there was any moral equivalence "between co-authoring some children's books and the senseless murder of four people in cold blood."

"The books will live on," Martin told CNN. "We have many authors who have died, and their books are still in print. And if they have any good effect, that can continue. So I don't believe that that is a conclusive argument."

Williams' lawyers went to the Supreme Court after the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals rejected an affidavit that suggested the one-time gang leader was framed for the four killings.

Gordon Bradbury von Ellerman, a jail trusty who had been held with Williams in the Los Angeles County Jail from 1979 to 1980, stated he was the cellmate of another trusty, identified as George "Roger" Oglesby. Von Ellerman states that Los Angeles Sheriff's Department personnel provided Oglesby with documents to aid him in testifying against Williams in return for reduced or dropped charges.

"I was personally aware that Los Angeles Sheriff's Department personnel would often provide information to these inmates so that they could help frame defendants for crimes," he said in the statement.

The San Francisco-based 9th Circuit rejected that petition Monday afternoon, arguing that Williams and his lawyers failed to present enough evidence of innocence to block the execution.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/12/13/williams.execution/index.html

[maddlingo]

Re: what do you think of the death penalty

^^ Good riddance IMO.

[nifta]

Re: what do you think of the death penalty

i'm sorry, but capital punishment is barbaric.