2 questions about the middle east. not iraqi related.

[thesightless]

1. regarding israel and palestine. why does the world ignore the fact that for every bomb a palestinian sets off, israel sends is airstrike teams and now that palestine has said they will not uphold the ceasefire, why is no one concerned that they are basically admitting that they are about to start serious fighting again. does no one want to help the region. we never see any talks about this any more, but just scoldings by the UN and simple talks while they fight back and forth.


2. regarding iran. how in the world is no one stepping up to the new president. he has already called for the destruction of israel 4 times, calling for people to kill jews and furthermore, is building more nuclear facilities against all UN sanctions and warnings. are they waiting until they are built and have made a bomb to act? will they step in only after iran draws into more war? out of anyone in the world right now, that guy is the one i fear most. north korea seems to be more about talk than anything, but this guy is pure evil, if anything the closest thing to hitler since hitler. he is calling for hte murder of an entire religious peoples and the destruction of a nation in an already spiraling area.


any thoughts of your on the area. (not on my thoughts, on the 2 situations)

[anonin]

Re: 2 questions about the middle east. not iraqi related.

yea, iran is the real deal, no one is stepping up because i dont think anyone can afford to step up, all the e.u. will do is slap sanctions and all the u.s. will do is slap their hand. It takes $$$$ to actually do something about irans nuke ambitions and the u.s. is currently so far in debt its not even funny. Iran beleives they have the right to have nuclear weapons and i dont see them giving up this pursuit any time soon. Will be interesting to see how things unfold.

[Bululu]

Re: 2 questions about the middle east. not iraqi related.

I ll just say what I think about the problem of Isreal and the arab world, I am a muslim and from an arab origin , I have very close jew friends , even an Isreali couple who are very adorable ,and I say this to them when we discuss politics, the problem was created at the begining of the 1948 when the western countries decided that they would forgive themselves on not helping the jews through the holocost, so what to do give them a country and whats better than Plaetine since arabs at that time were mostly still colonised giving the example of north Africa , or still riding camels and living in tents like the case of Saudi Arabia and the gulf countries, I know that no one can take Isreal away from where it is now , but at least give the palestinians a chance to live.

PS: I know that jews were there 4000 years ago , but at least that Isreal is a country now , and the jews suffered from all the descrimination through history, it should be a very good lesson to learn from it and not let the palestinians live the way they are living now if I can call that living.

[anonin]

Re: 2 questions about the middle east. not iraqi related.

I know that no one can take Isreal away from where it is now

dosnt mean a certain someone isnt trying http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4510922.stm

[Bululu]

Re: 2 questions about the middle east. not iraqi related.

It takes more than words anonin , trust he is just a bitch , words words and words , he wouldn t even dare , this is just a political game in Iran since he comes from the hard line in the Iraian politics , so from time to time he has to come up with these stupid comments to show his people that e is still a hard liner.

But to come to a solution this problem has to be solved , Isreal should really make the Palestinian feel that life has a meaning and not let them live in poverty behind huge walls like animals .

[thesightless]

Re: 2 questions about the middle east. not iraqi related.

yeah the modern idea of the middle east vs the world is based on 1947 and the accord. but to be fair, the palestinian population throughout history commited atocirites that only the americans did and the germans did in terms of forcing people from their land and destoying a civilization. personally i would love to see the holy lands become unfied under the 3 religions and serve as a vatican style area where there is no formal government intervention but allows the 3 major churches to actively make the region a better place. dont forget that the christian religions hold a s much ties to the area as islam and hebrew. they have just stepped away to avoid conflict and the popular idea of christianty being centered in rome lead to a complacency within those areas.

[superdave]

Re: 2 questions about the middle east. not iraqi related.

1. Regarding Israel, I know that Cond Rice has been there recently trying to get an accord between the Isarelis and Palenstenians. However, I don't think we'll see peace between the Israelis and Palestenians. There's too much animosity and bad history between them to be worked out.

2. Regarding Iran, the current president is a puppet of the Mulllahs. And I think the Iranian theocracy realizes the American public and the rest of the world doesn't have an appetite for another war. And the UN has no real power in the world. That said, Iran will push things as far as the world will let them which seems pretty far at this point.

[davetlv]

Re: 2 questions about the middle east. not iraqi related.

1. regarding israel and palestine. why does the world ignore the fact that for every bomb a palestinian sets off, israel sends is airstrike teams and now that palestine has said they will not uphold the ceasefire, why is no one concerned that they are basically admitting that they are about to start serious fighting again. does no one want to help the region. we never see any talks about this any more, but just scoldings by the UN and simple talks while they fight back and forth.

Some good questions here. . .

Whilst i believe that there are many people on this planet who genuinely care about the plight of the Palestinians, i also believe that the world has had enough of the continous aggression my people face whilst sitting in cafes, bars, shoping in supermarkets, etc.

Whilst we acted unilaterally with regards to the disengagement, even Ariel Sharon realises that a withdrawal from the West Bank can not be achieved in the same way. Furthermore, whilst both sides can justifiably be accused of not implementing the group of four's road map, at least Israel has gone some way. Meanwhile, most of the world realise that the main responsibility of the PA in the road map was to dis-arm its terrorist groups - not only has this not been done, but, Islamic Jihad ended the ceasfire a while ago, whilst Hamas are now saying they will end theirs at the end of the year. It should be noted here, that the Al-aqsa Brigade, a paramiltary group closely associated with the ruling Fatah party, broke their ceasefire ages ago.

So to answer your question - does no one want to help the region - i think the answer is that people want to, but there is only so much they can do. I also believe that many people outside of the region have just started to understand that before anymore moves towards peace, the Palestinians need themselves to decide what they actually want. With Fatah calling for 1967 boarders and Hamas calling for the total destruction of Israel, no serious moves can be achieved.

2. regarding iran. how in the world is no one stepping up to the new president. he has already called for the destruction of israel 4 times, calling for people to kill jews and furthermore, is building more nuclear facilities against all UN sanctions and warnings. are they waiting until they are built and have made a bomb to act? will they step in only after iran draws into more war? out of anyone in the world right now, that guy is the one i fear most. north korea seems to be more about talk than anything, but this guy is pure evil, if anything the closest thing to hitler since hitler. he is calling for hte murder of an entire religious peoples and the destruction of a nation in an already spiraling area.


any thoughts of your on the area. (not on my thoughts, on the 2 situations)

I love the way people are pontificating over Iran. Lets see the evidence for a moment.

They are signatory to NPT, therefore they are meant to have all their facilities open to inspection by our latest Noble Peace Prize holders (ha ha ha), they are refusing, just like Iraq did 2000. They have called for the destruction of a fellow member of the UN, something which is against the UN charter, they have called for the forced relocation of 5.5 Million Israelis to Europe and still the world does nothing.

I believe that the west here is trying a new tactic, by sticking their collective heads up their own asses, they are waiting for Israel to take out Iran's nuclear facilities (remember Iraq in 1981 - thank god for those Israelis hey!)

[funk_doobie]

Re: 2 questions about the middle east. not iraqi related.

we need to stop meddleing in affrias that dont concern us . Stope wasting time beleving us media propaganda

[dig72]

Re: 2 questions about the middle east. not iraqi related.

1. regarding israel and palestine. why does the world ignore the fact that for every bomb a palestinian sets off, israel sends is airstrike teams and now that palestine has said they will not uphold the ceasefire, why is no one concerned that they are basically admitting that they are about to start serious fighting again. does no one want to help the region. we never see any talks about this any more, but just scoldings by the UN and simple talks while they fight back and forth.


2. regarding iran. how in the world is no one stepping up to the new president. he has already called for the destruction of israel 4 times, calling for people to kill jews and furthermore, is building more nuclear facilities against all UN sanctions and warnings. are they waiting until they are built and have made a bomb to act? will they step in only after iran draws into more war? out of anyone in the world right now, that guy is the one i fear most. north korea seems to be more about talk than anything, but this guy is pure evil, if anything the closest thing to hitler since hitler. he is calling for hte murder of an entire religious peoples and the destruction of a nation in an already spiraling area.


any thoughts of your on the area. (not on my thoughts, on the 2 situations)

1) Israel is in control of everything in respect to Israel and it's occupied lands. They have the power, money and backing of the super powers of the world. The Israeli government are the only ones who are really able to bring about peace and security if they want to and so far have been reluctant in doing so.

One must remember it is the Palestinians who are under occupation and not the other way round and anyone under occupation should and has the right to resist. Before I get jumped I will say this, "I do not support the attacks on Israeli civilians nor do I support the oppression and attacks on the Palestinian civilians either". I believe the two can live together or if need be side by side or in seperate states peacefully. The past has proven this is possible, but a real effort needs to be made by leaders and policy makers from both sides, but moreso the Israeli side for obvious reasons.


2) As stated before Iran's leader is just beating his chest and letting his people and neighbours know that he is a tough guy and not scared of Israel and the US. This may or may not work in his favour, all depends on who you ask or which side your on.

Iran has the right just like many other nations to develop it's own fuel and not have to be reliant on other nations promising to deliver it to them. Being held hostage like this is not good for a nation.

Gross hypocracy seems to be the big problem with both issues discussed.

[Bululu]

Re: 2 questions about the middle east. not iraqi related.

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
Very very well said sir , I am also against the actions against civilians , but in the other hand what do you expect from someone who s only dream is to live like a human being, no education , no future and ont even a land , and living inside a cage like an animal ?????

[davetlv]

Re: 2 questions about the middle east. not iraqi related.

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
Very very well said sir , I am also against the actions against civilians , but in the other hand what do you expect from someone who s only dream is to live like a human being, no education , no future and ont even a land , and living inside a cage like an animal ?????

Living inside a cage like an animal. . . . interesting phrasiology there.

What many people forget is that the UN orginially set up refugee camps after 1948 when the Jordanians and Egyptians occupied the West Bank and Gaza Strip. In more than 50 years, nearly 60, the UN and its chicken shit agency UNWRA have done nothing for genuine Palestinians except keep them in perpetual poverty and ignorance.

Israel did not create the refugee problem and whilst some of our actions have been wrong, please remember that prior to 94 and the return of terrorist number 1 to the territories the Palestinians had many more freedoms then they have now living under the PA. Funny how that turned out!

A previous discussion on the UN was held - might be a useful read http://www.mercuryserver.com/forums/...read.php?t=134

Israel did not start this latest round, in fact has done everything in power to bring it to an end (remember the withdrawal from Gaza), but whilst Israel moves towards peaceful co-existance many Palestinians, egged on by the likes of Hamas and that moron in Iran, still refuse to recognise Israels right to exist. How do you negotiate with someone who believes you have no right to life?

[dig72]

Re: 2 questions about the middle east. not iraqi related.

How do you negotiate with someone who believes you have no right to life?

It's not about who started what, we could go on about this forever, it's about how we move foward.

In the past it was said that Mr Arafat who was the stumbling block on the path to peace. He's not around anymore so who's the problem now? Mr Abbas? I don't think so.

If the leaders of Israel really want peace with the Palestinians then now is the time to do it. The withdrawl from Gaza was a step foward but when two steps are taken back then nothing has been achieved at all.

Israel needs to do this not just for the Palestinians but most importantly for herself.
This is not the way that Israelis want their country to be projected throughtout the eyes of the world.


( Your statement quoted above is a little ironic don't you think?)

[Bululu]

Re: 2 questions about the middle east. not iraqi related.

Yes living inside a cage ,arent you with me on that ??? if not let me give you some facts , Gaza is the most populated peace of land in the world , you cant leave this territory due to border closing by the Isreali army ,which means no business and no work and no travelling even for the lucky ones who get the chance to work in Isreal , A beautiful big wall that sperates you from the rest of the world which is built to protect Isreal against suicide attacks . remember what happened last week in Natanya , these are not the steps to be taken Dave , leaving Gaza was good but what after .??

I think the old generation palestinians and Isrealis hate each other , why dont we work on the new generations ??? I find this the only solution, teach them to coexcist amd to understand each other , Isreal has the power on this matter , it and only it can change this problem , arent you with me on that Dave ???

[Yao]

Re: 2 questions about the middle east. not iraqi related.

I agree mostly with Dave I gotta say...we've had extensive discussions about this, and so far he has always come up with very consistent and well-balanced opinions on this matter.

I'm a little out of this topic, but to me it looks like Israel has indeed made a few moves that definitely mark it's commitment to creating a more peaceful situation: when a few groups unilaterally end the cease-fire, you can hardly hold it against the Israelians, not? Yes, the Palestinians have a right to live in a free country, and the wall is still debatable, but on the other hand: it keeps a lot of people safe, and until such time that groups like Al-Aqsa brigades and Hamas do not seems to be willing to revert to the path of dialogue, I think that wall should stand. Period.

Arafat is dead, and everything was supposed to be better now, but it isn't: so where are the Palestinians peaceful intentions now? Stupid Ahmadinejad with his remarks might even give some the idea that they will be backed up in their fight. Until now I was also in the middle about Iran, but his stance combined with their aspirations for nucleat technology are making me fear that indeed Iran should not be allowed to develop any knowledge on it. I'm against giving a gun to a warmonger.