its about damn time the idiot said it.

[THE_LIGHT]

Re: its about damn time the idiot said it.

So Rumsfeld if the fall guy? I love how they use their pawns.

This might sum things up for you..http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4538788.stm

watch the interview.. oh yeah, guess whose name keeps popping up??????? RUMFUCK & Cheney CHODE... HHHMMMM

cheers

[dig72]

Re: its about damn time the idiot said it.

So when and where was Clinton held responsible for lieing under oath. He was impeached for lieing, but was he held responsible.

NO!

Not to mention all the scandals of that administration. ChinaGate, HillaryMediGate, oh, I've forgotten them all now, something like 10 total.

Sorry Rob, but what are you talking about?

[thesightless]

Re: its about damn time the idiot said it.

he is speaking about the 10 or so occurences where bill or hillary of one of their siblings were found to be doing illegal things but never got prosecuted b/c he/she was in office. they should both be in prison for the real estate shit they pulled off, they have evidence of back dealings and what not. frankly though, they are both out of office, so lets get over it and look to getting someone good in office next round. maybe guiliani.

bill and hillary essentially made the democratic party the party of ""do as i say, not as i do"" i.e. they protect all their money under trusts which they publicly deem wrong, she trashed the lowering of the investment tax but then put even more money into tax sheilded accounts. just one example.

[Kobe]

Re: its about damn time the idiot said it.

I'm sorry but didn't we spend several hundred million dollars and several years investigating Whitewater, only to come up with... an unrelated blowjob. If there was anything there, they would have nailed him for it, don't you think so considering how hard they tried? Either way, it is still better than DeficitGate, 2,300deadAmericaSolidersGate, CIAleakGate, UncontestedHaliburtonContractGate, BushIsSpyingOnYouGate, FEMAgate, and the religious right if you ask me. Clinton might have had shady dealing in his private business, but he left the country out of it. Bush, Cheney, Haliburton etc's shady private business dealings are all of our problem, and it is dragging this country to new lows. But Iraq has never been better, maybe. What did we accomplish again?

And why does every discussion about Bush's shaky record always come back to Clinton? I might as well bring up how Reagan, (and GHWB and Rumsfeld) armed Iraq in the first place. And for that matter trained the Taliban and created AlQueada. At least it would be relevant.

[thesightless]

Re: its about damn time the idiot said it.

yep. it goes all the way back to 1947 and the UN charter law of creating isreal. we didnt belong meddling with a region and placing a nation. but ppl screaming at one guy when the guy b4 him is just as at fault is wrong. if anything, clinton fucked up more for only sending a missle at thier camps and pissing them off more.

also though, there is a lot more ""clinton-esque"" scandals out there than a blowjob and whtiewater. they are just long forgotten cuz most people dont care. i know i dont, im just looking forward to guiliani's time in office. he owes no one in politis anything and shoots it straight.

[Kobe]

Re: its about damn time the idiot said it.

I want to believe that but RG turned me off big time when he campaigned for W.

John McCain is a republican who I believe stands for something, and believes in it. But since he won't tow the party line, they will never back him. Gotta keep those religious nuts happy, ya know.

[thesightless]

Re: its about damn time the idiot said it.

fuck em all, im gonna do what i want to anyway. i dont murder, rape or pillage so im OK i think, im not gonna get arrested anytime soon for eating vicoden or drinking too much so i dont worry, just keep my taxes down, keep the cops and firemen around and fix the roads and im happy. i hate all the popular gov't figures in one way or another, so i just vote for those who can actually try to accomplish something. hence the only vote i have put forward in the last 8 years was for bloomberg. he is a prick, but he gets shit done.

[robprunzit]

Re: its about damn time the idiot said it.

I want to believe that but RG turned me off big time when he campaigned for W.

John McCain is a republican who I believe stands for something, and believes in it. But since he won't tow the party line, they will never back him. Gotta keep those religious nuts happy, ya know.

Flip the coin for just a moment and answere the question from the opposing side.

Zell Miller, or even Lieberman who is in office now. Do you think the Democrats (or just the Left) will back them? They stood for something in their own party, and I don't see many in their party standing with them or behind them in the views they express, which they clearly believe in.

[dig72]

Re: its about damn time the idiot said it.

he is speaking about the 10 or so occurences where bill or hillary of one of their siblings were found to be doing illegal things but never got prosecuted b/c he/she was in office. they should both be in prison for the real estate shit they pulled off, they have evidence of back dealings and what not.

Thanks for clearing things up.

Don't know too much about Clinton other than him recieving the most famous blowjob in history.

Although legal, the pardon given to Marc Rich by Clinton was also a little disturbing imo.

[robprunzit]

Re: its about damn time the idiot said it.

he is speaking about the 10 or so occurences where bill or hillary of one of their siblings were found to be doing illegal things but never got prosecuted b/c he/she was in office. they should both be in prison for the real estate shit they pulled off, they have evidence of back dealings and what not. frankly though, they are both out of office, so lets get over it and look to getting someone good in office next round. maybe guiliani.

bill and hillary essentially made the democratic party the party of ""do as i say, not as i do"" i.e. they protect all their money under trusts which they publicly deem wrong, she trashed the lowering of the investment tax but then put even more money into tax sheilded accounts. just one example.

Your right about that, and it is forgotten because the press never made much out of it and let it die all the B & Hillary joy I'm sure.

You know much of the scandals of the Clinton terms were really huge, so when dig72 asked what are you talking about, I would not be surprised if he really is serious in the question. The media did not keep those scandals on the front pages.

Such as selling military weapon secrets to China,
such as the death of Vince Foster,
such as the rape of " name fails me ", and another woman who was somehow hurt sexually by Clinton and it was all but covered up.
Such as the documents found in Hillary's personal possession after she said she never had or had seen them. (what they were I forget now).

The blow job was only a catalyst which they were able to hang him, but the press turned it into a joke or personal matters, which it really was.

Clinton was a liar and in a totally different camp then the now president of America who will go down in history as accomplishing great task, whether or not people like it or not. He has for more than 4 years kept America from being attacked again, and has made 3 countries free (more than 60,000 people now have rights - like you and I have in our countries) . That is accomplishment!

[Kobe]

Re: its about damn time the idiot said it.

That is spin. Look no further than his revolving justification for the war and tell me if his goal was to free Iraq. That was a unnecessary consequnce of the money grab. But the revisionists will gloss it all over in a golden sunsut just like they did with drug dealer/arms trader Reagan and all we'll remember is the lovable idiot who freed Iraq.

[toasty]

Re: its about damn time the idiot said it.

the now president of America who will go down in history as accomplishing great task, whether or not people like it or not.

Obviously history will ultimately resolve this, but my sense is that Bush will go down in history as one of the worst presidents we've ever had.

Furthermore, I think he'll also be remembered as the person in charge during a period of time that we'll all be ashamed of looking back:

• Regardless of whether you think it was justified or not and whether you believe it was ordered from someone higher up the chain or the work of a few bad apples, it is clear that people have been tortured at the hands of Americans. Our children will read history books that include a section about how Americans tortured people -- that's a first.
  
• That same history book will also include a chapter about the president authorizing warrantless wiretaps of US citizens -- I'm pretty sure that's a first as well, although there might have been some of that during the McCarthyism era.
  
• There will also be a chapter about how our intelligence system completely broke down, resulting in the premature invasion of another country.
  
• Although I'm hopeful this won't be the case, that history book might also include a chapter about how we got our asses handed to us by a loosely organized insurgency from a third-world country with no air force and no navy.

All of this, and more has happened on Bush's watch. Will history forgive him because all of these problems also occurred after the worst terrorist attack in our nation's history? Maybe -- but I doubt it.

My opinion, take it for what it's worth...

[BSully828]

Re: its about damn time the idiot said it.

That is spin.

Its all spin – on both sides of the aisle. That’s the nature of modern politics (at least modern American politics), those who scream the loudest and the longest will eventually be heard. Bush is neither the silver spoon fed retard who has only the interest of the rich in mind, nor is he the pious “aw shucks” everyman who is just as comfortable on the farm as he is in the west wing. Those are the images created by media savvy players on both sides and the vaaaast majority of America, red and blue, is all too willing to lap it up. The truth, as usual, lies somewhere in between.

What is troubling to me is the ease in which most people (worldwide) accept what they are told without a second thought. Wrap it up in a slick package with a clever title (i.e. Fahrenheit 9/11) or throw all the bells and whistles at your disposal (i.e. Fox News) and you can make accuracy an afterthought. Most Bush haters across the globe have no problem believing a report that is unwaveringly anti Bush regardless of how blatantly bias it may be, but give them some evidence of Bush’s success and they cry “Spin! Spin!”. Naturally the reverse is just as true – Ann Coulter can recite the evils of the left wing in her sleep, but ask her what Bush’s plan for border control is and you are suddenly a recruiter for Al Qaeda. It rings very similar to the recent debate on theology we had here. Make the slightest motion away from the Judeo-Christian idea and you’re a heathen. Entertain the existence of a higher power, even for a moment, and you’re a bible thumper.

Topics like the Iraq War and domestic terrorism are so insanely complex that it is impossible to have one unified opinion, or one singular cause. To say that the only reason Bush invaded Iraq was for $$/oil is just as asinine as saying the only reason he invaded was to free the nation. People love a good story so reports full of mystery and intrigue get swallowed up much quicker than the truth. Shady backroom agreements between army generals and oil drillers sound sexy and exciting, and prove the fanciful notion that those in power are corrupt to the core. The image of a good Christian soldier releasing the noose of tyranny around a Muslim country and spreading the greatness of democracy makes for a great read, emboldens the faith of the faithful in their leader. What both of those have in Hollywood potential, they lack in realism – the world just does not operate on such smooth, even actions and events. There are way too many players involved, decisions to be made and secrets to be kept for something like a world war to take place by causes such as those.

Conspiracy theories like that are the results of one too many Tom Clancy novels made movies. And its rather apparent that most people are either totally unaware or barely intereseted in finding out for themselves

[thesightless]

Re: its about damn time the idiot said it.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


THAT is THE most honest and intelligent post i have read here. if only more ppl thought like that we would move forward. like i said, i hate all politicians for exactly what you reasoned above. bush did good things and bad things, so did all his predessors. im sure the country didnt want us to get involved in the european campaign of WW2 but we did. same shit for everything the leadership of this country has done since the advent of the 1900's/


i think the biggest thorn in the side of government in america is CNN, FOX, MSNBC, CSPAN. every decision that might be made is instantly thrown into the spotlight before it is thought over and debated and put into law. who knows, maybe all the wiretaps were hidden b/c they weren't PC and they only tapped ppl of middle eastern and northern african descent. then where did they go wrong? they found the target feild and examined it. we will never know. just think of when ONE SOLITARY SENATOR had said something about starting a draft, when 99 others and puerto rican reps didnt, every news station reported that we were going to have this huge draft that encompassed every kid from 17-40 years of age.

also to go along with toasty,

no textbooks go into depth on how we had japanese internment camps, cuban's being arrested without warrent during the nuclear crisis, sending missles from afar at regions we were supposed to be at peace with, illegal manipulation of the markets in the 90's through endless lobbying and payments.

they are all wrong, everyone of them

[Kobe]

Re: its about damn time the idiot said it.

I agree, top post BSully. I admit I get swept up on the partisanism. Thank you for the reminder that there is truth and bullshit on both sides.