(i'm going to continue) millions in Africa on 'brink of starvation

[Yao]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/africa/01/06/africa.starving.ap/index.html

Here's another one: quit helping them with food aid. Most of those countries are help-dependent, and do not get motivated to develop policies themselves to prevent this from happening again. Invest only in plans that have as their objective to facilitate the development of policies, intstitutions and the domestic food production, so that in the long run the region will develop a healthy food producing sector.

Furthermore: there is enough food in Africa itself, the problem is simply that it's not there where it is needed. Even funnier is the fact that when such a famine occurs, the food from other regions inside Africa becomes so expensive (more demand = higher prices) that the stricken countries simply can't afford to buy it. Inequal distribution and free market mechanisms = UN taking care of the symptoms again and not solving a goddamn thing.

[anonin]

Re: (i'm going to continue) millions in Africa on 'brink of starvation

agreed! Africa needs to get its shit together and develop some infrastructure instead of solely relying on other countries (mainly the west)

[superdave]

Re: (i'm going to continue) millions in Africa on 'brink of starvation

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/africa....ap/index.html

Here's another one: quit helping them with food aid. Most of those countries are help-dependent, and do not get motivated to develop policies themselves to prevent this from happening again. Invest only in plans that have as their objective to facilitate the development of policies, intstitutions and the domestic food production, so that in the long run the region will develop a healthy food producing sector.

Furthermore: there is enough food in Africa itself, the problem is simply that it's not there where it is needed. Even funnier is the fact that when such a famine occurs, the food from other regions inside Africa becomes so expensive (more demand = higher prices) that the stricken countries simply can't afford to buy it. Inequal distribution and free market mechanisms = UN taking care of the symptoms again and not solving a goddamn thing.

I must be daydreaming because I had to re-read those comments. I was thinking some right wing conservative posted those comments.

[Yao]

Re: (i'm going to continue) millions in Africa on 'brink of starvation

lol

I still don't see why most of my dear yanks on this board see me as an überliberal: you can't place me anywhere, I just try and asess every situation by itself

Sometimes you need to talk, sometimes you need the whip. I just don't like it that most people use either only talk or the whip.

Thanks though Dave, I actually took that as a compliment

[superdave]

Re: (i'm going to continue) millions in Africa on 'brink of starvation

I'm just playing around. Glad you take a joke really well.

[Yao]

Re: (i'm going to continue) millions in Africa on 'brink of starvation

Humour keeps politics interesting

I've actually heard though that for an Africanist student my views are pretty right-winged...but maybe that is because i've seen the result of decades of left-wing policies mixed with a very conservative agenda hidden in the background...it leads to more shit.

[Mr.Big]

Re: (i'm going to continue) millions in Africa on 'brink of starvation

Africa is a dump and always will be, i call it the bottomless money pit where europe and america throw their lose change (millions) every year...

Also Yao ur right a right wing attitude should be inforced in peoples mindset when talking about africas problems.

[Yao]

Re: (i'm going to continue) millions in Africa on 'brink of starvation

There is a little catch to the right-wing attitude story though:

on the one hand we need to cut down on help, especially that damn food aid everytime disaster strikes, since that tells the African populace that when they're in trouble those suckers from the UN will come running again with their food packackes and stuff, which can usually very conveniently be hijacked by rebel groups or warlords (especially in the Horn of Africa, Somalia), leaving the really needy with nothing again.

However: it has been proven time after time that just neoliberal reforms fuck up those already weak countries even more: basically it boils down to exposing them to an agressive world market which extracts all resources and uses those countries as the proverbial dump for their goods. Domestic industries and initiatives usually are not capable of competing with the western ones.

In order to avoid that trap, for many countries a very socialist and protectionist regime might provide a secure economical and social environment for domestic industries to develop and mature, and a sound health and educational system to become established. After, say, 15 - 20 years, the barriers could step by step be pulled down, exposing the country's industries etc. to the global market, giving them the time to adapt. This process should take no longer than 5 years IMO, since the basis is there, it's mostly the technological advancements that need to be implemented at that stage. For that, there should be enough fundings by that time, provided the economical policy has aimed for further development of the industrial sector1.

1: the trap in which many countries relying on ISI (Import Substituting Industries) were caught, was to ignore the attraction of the foreign market which is constantly developing new technologies: lazyness on the part of for example Argentina's industrial big guns, led to a flourishing black market on which foreign products fo better quality got imported, and literally made the official market bleed to death.

So, in short:

protectionism, lot of investment in health care & education, strong emphasis on developing or acquiring competitive technologies.

Nourish the baby to an adult, expose it to the world and then let it go and make it's way out there itself.

[thesightless]

Re: (i'm going to continue) millions in Africa on 'brink of starvation

took me long enough to read this.

the bottom line is the sad fact that nothing in africa will get better until they do it themselves, simply for the reason that africa doesnt really have much to offer the ""leading nations"" of the world other than the few oil producing nations who sell out the people so a few leaders can get rich.

[Yao]

Re: (i'm going to continue) millions in Africa on 'brink of starvation

Yep. I hope it was clear that even the nourishing thing should be done by the African states themselves...

[rhipkin]

Re: (i'm going to continue) millions in Africa on 'brink of starvation

Wow didn't think I read such ignorant statements coming from the US and Europe - we in Africa cannot "help ourselves" as the US and EU have placed massive and incredibly tough trade Embargo's on any food stuff and other products we wish to trade in your countries....

Man, do some research and let's talk Africa from an African's view point....

You can't pretend to be so knowledgeable about Africa if you not one??

[thesightless]

Re: (i'm going to continue) millions in Africa on 'brink of starvation

bro, it isnt ignorant. its just a sad truth. the majority of african nations really dont appeal to the businesses of the EU and US/Canada in terms of opening up shop there. there are a million reasons, some valid, some not, but reality nonetheless. a country like Chad, Cote de ivory or Sudan gives little or no factors for enterprise or aid, mainly because of the lack of leadership, the massive debt, who knows what each reason is. the debt forgiveness was a good start i guess, a big loss for those who were owed, but it helped africa. the infrastructure is shot and doesnt lend to massive prodjects. why is a leading nation going to pump funding into the region when they already know thier return is going to be poor?

it aint right, but it has footing in truth.

[Yao]

Re: (i'm going to continue) millions in Africa on 'brink of starvation

Wow didn't think I read such ignorant statements coming from the US and Europe - we in Africa cannot "help ourselves" as the US and EU have placed massive and incredibly tough trade Embargo's on any food stuff and other products we wish to trade in your countries....

Man, do some research and let's talk Africa from an African's view point....

You can't pretend to be so knowledgeable about Africa if you not one??

then explain to me why the amount of money found in roughly all of Nigeria's millionaires bank accounts overseas amounts up pretty much to their foreign debt? Gimme a break man, africa needs to rid itself of it's fucking corrupt elite before anything can change there. Any new help will be siphoned off into the patron-client networks, and 80% of all foreign aid has LEFT the fucking continent within a year. That's called capital flight, and the majority of it is certainly not due to foreign investment by Africans.

[rhipkin]

Re: (i'm going to continue) millions in Africa on 'brink of starvation

That's really what it boils down to..... it's corrupt leadership, not Africa that is a dump. Africa is rich in natural resources. Nigeria accounts for a huge portion of the worlds Oil consumption (that would account for about 40% of the US oil consumption).

European countries came and mined the crap out of Africa, but the money was not funneled back into Africa, it went to the development of European countries. Africans were enslaved in their own countries, many African countries were taken by force and raped of THEIR natural resources. Then when they did win independance the companies which benefitted so hugely from African resources packed up their entire operations and left, leaving nothing behind but forcing Africans to try and revitalize those industries which required enormous captial outlays. Once those loans were established getting to sell those products were impossible due to trade embargo's and so the vicious cycle began.

Admitedly due to warring factions and greed many African countries have become unproductive and have fallen from grace. But countries like South Africa, Nigeria (ironically), Botswana, Angola (now the war is over), Mozambique (now that the war is over.....lol) and a whole bunch of others are working tirelessly to remedy that situation. Many countries in Africa have thriving economies, you cannot take a few countries and state that AFRICA is a pit, that is ignorant. We South African's are at the forefront of establishing Africa back on the map.

With regards to food aid, one must remember that Central Africa is prone to drought, severe drought. This is not Africa's fault, this is not caused by war or greed this is nature. A drought in Africa can last YEARS, crippling drought, haverst destroying droughts - plagued with locusts - entire crops and food stocks are destroyed. I know this because we stock pile food from World Food Program and transport these to starving people around Africa. No food no money, no money no development, no development no upliftment - Africa is in the grips of a vicious circle and trust me we working damn hard to fix that - but what needs to happen is debt relief and the scrapping of trade embargo's. People are "scared" to invest in Africa because how can they see a return on their investments when Africans cannot even get a return on their investments??

Their is HUGE investment potential in Africa, hell South Africa is proof of that the answer to that is we need to stabilise the continent first, put people who have the best interest for their countries in leadership, Africa is not a pit, it is a beautiful continent with beautiful people.

Friday tomorrow.........

[Yao]

Re: (i'm going to continue) millions in Africa on 'brink of starvation

That's really what it boils down to..... it's corrupt leadership, not Africa that is a dump. Africa is rich in natural resources. Nigeria accounts for a huge portion of the worlds Oil consumption (that would account for about 40% of the US oil consumption).

Yessir. The potential is huge, and there's nobody I know that does not acknowledge that. The main problem is indeed as I said before corruption, and of course mismanagement.

European countries came and mined the crap out of Africa, but the money was not funneled back into Africa, it went to the development of European countries. Africans were enslaved in their own countries, many African countries were taken by force and raped of THEIR natural resources. Then when they did win independance the companies which benefitted so hugely from African resources packed up their entire operations and left, leaving nothing behind but forcing Africans to try and revitalize those industries which required enormous captial outlays. Once those loans were established getting to sell those products were impossible due to trade embargo's and so the vicious cycle began.

The current situation is a sick one IMO. Western companies that invest in African countries often do so on the basis of conditionality: they hardly really invest in the region they come to, personell is still mainly expats and not locally hired labour. Basicaly, when a Western company invests in a local initiative or actually sets up a factory for example, it is simply to lower productions costs and increase profits. Not to help the country they are investing in to advance.

Add to that extractive way of investment the completely faulty trade conditions: high tariffs for processed goods exports (in order to disencourage local manufacturing and processing of raw materials), varying prices of commodities like cocoa and coffee, insane subsidies for European and American agriculture. The whole construction is set up to make the profit for the Western countries, plain and simple.

An example: in 2002 the net loss of revenues in cotton production for Africa was about $300 million (cause by the subsidies of cotton farmers mostly in Europe and the US), while the total debt relief for 9 cotton producing nations in Africa under the HPIC initiative was $230 million! This is a net profit of 70 million for the EU/US, despite the at first sight enormous amount of debt relief granted. It's all a fake contruction in the end, and very effective in keeping the right side of the financial balance in the West, not in Africa.

The same can be said about the political conditionalities that became attached to development aid in the '80s and '90s: neo-liberal market system, less govt expenditures, agricultural reform and trade reforms. This is where 'good governance' came into the development lexicon. The real effect was, and still is today, that the African market became dominated by western industries, education and health care virtually dissappeared from the political agenda (they weren't cutting down on army expenses, no way!), miserably failed agricultural reforms (the farmers got low prices, the profits were for the govt and agricultural boards, so the farmers en masse took the exit option and abandoned commercial production) and still completely ridiculous trade conditions, since the improvements in trading tariffs were limited to those products that would not generate a serious capital inflow for Africa and were not economically very important for the West.

Then you have your neopatrimonial system, carefully upheld by the ruling elites, siphoning off scores of money since despite the 'democracies' in many African nations the state is still a prize to be won and to be exploited. Slowly the realisation is coming through in the idealist groups in the West that with democracy the African means something fairly different than the European. More like conquering the state without the use of the military (or violence per s?), but still something to take advantage of.

Although this view is highly contested, I am in fact moving towards the idea that economic development comes before political stability (not necessarily democracy!!). This is underlined by the fact that there is actually a yearly income that serves as the bottom value for the potential of installing a stable democracy: $6000,- a year. Above that average yearly income, democracies are usually fairly stable, above $6500,- there are virtually no coup d'?tats recorded.

Admitedly due to warring factions and greed many African countries have become unproductive and have fallen from grace. But countries like South Africa, Nigeria (ironically), Botswana, Angola (now the war is over), Mozambique (now that the war is over.....lol) and a whole bunch of others are working tirelessly to remedy that situation. Many countries in Africa have thriving economies, you cannot take a few countries and state that AFRICA is a pit, that is ignorant. We South African's are at the forefront of establishing Africa back on the map.

I agree, though I have to comment on Mbeki's conduct of late. He was the one initiating NEPAD in the first place, but has had to virtually strip it completely to get African nations aboard. National elites were not amused with the fact that at first it could actually assess the political conduct and progress of national governments and 'punish' them if they did not abide with the self inflicted standards.

When he suddenly publicly removed the political element out of the APRM (African Peer Review Mechanism) under pressure of other governments that otherwise threatened not to join the initiative, he got heavily criticised by the G8 because it was one of the key features upon which they had decided to support NEPAD. But when in the case of Zimbabwe the Commonwealth leaders made an appeal to Mbeki to act consistent with what he had been saying and undetake political action, he labeled them racist who were "inspired by notions of white supremacy" and who felt "uneasy at their repugnant position imposed by inferior blacks".

To me this means that economically South-Africa may be on the forefront, but politically that not the case. Your country is championing NEPAD as the solution to Africa's underdevelopment problem, but just as the West it will be South-Africa profiting the most it, simply because it will in the end only boil down to economic reforms which actually aren't reforms but the SAP's and Lagos Plan for Action under a layer of new paint.

With regards to food aid, one must remember that Central Africa is prone to drought, severe drought. This is not Africa's fault, this is not caused by war or greed this is nature. A drought in Africa can last YEARS, crippling drought, haverst destroying droughts - plagued with locusts - entire crops and food stocks are destroyed. I know this because we stock pile food from World Food Program and transport these to starving people around Africa. No food no money, no money no development, no development no upliftment - Africa is in the grips of a vicious circle and trust me we working damn hard to fix that - but what needs to happen is debt relief and the scrapping of trade embargo's. People are "scared" to invest in Africa because how can they see a return on their investments when Africans cannot even get a return on their investments??

It has also on numerous occasions happened that during a famine there was indeed enough food produced in another part of the country or a nearby country, but simply as a result of the high demand in such cases the prices increased so much that food aid was much cheaper than buying it locally/regionally. How fucked up is this?

I do advocate scrapping trade embargo's and tariff walls, but I don't think there should be the debt relief as is proposed ($64 bln a year to fill the resource gap). When adressed appropiately, solving the corruption problem will account for most of that money already. Africa has nothing with asking for that amount of money if in a number of cases the national foreign debt equals the capital sitting in overseas bankaccounts from the national elite (Nigeria: $32bln roughly each!!!).

More money will only perpetuate the current neopatrimonial system, and keep at bay the moment when a real fundamental change has to be made in order to revive the continent.

Their is HUGE investment potential in Africa, hell South Africa is proof of that the answer to that is we need to stabilise the continent first, put people who have the best interest for their countries in leadership, Africa is not a pit, it is a beautiful continent with beautiful people.

Friday tomorrow.........

South Africa is without a doubt the best kid in class when it comes to economic development. Despite Mbeki's shortcomings, this is also true for political development. And yes, there is indeed a huge investment potential, which unfortunately in many cases cannot be taken advantage of (yet) unless some fundamental changes take places on African as well as European/American side.

I love Africa, and I'm looking forward to my research trip to Ghana this summer bro...can't wait to breathe the air there and experience a totally different culture again!