(i'm going to continue) millions in Africa on 'brink of starvation

[rhipkin]

Re: (i'm going to continue) millions in Africa on 'brink of starvation

Perfect answer! Thank you for that response, thought I was gonna gat trampled on there! Yes I agree with 99.9% of what you have mentioned - admittedly there is an enormous amount of work to be done in Africa and to mend and rebuild the relationship between the US/EU and Africa.

I firmly believe that Africa will, in the not too distant furture, be a profitable, stable and awesome continent.

With regards to Mbeki. I hold him in high regard. He has pioneered reform and racial intergration in South Africa, he has led by example and has proven over and over again that transformation requires a "willing buyer willing seller" strategy - and although reform is slow, imho, it is happening and we in this country can see that. With regards to NEPAD breaking it down - out of the say (not sure of the exact figures) 30 African countries, only about 8 - 9 actually paid what they agreed to, this level of unwillingness is just another mountain to climb in Mbeki's tireless efforts to bring stability, good governance and productivity back to the continent. Our efforts in Mozambique, Angola, Democratic Republic of Congo, Rwanda didn't happen overnight, it took ages for us to even get warring factions to meet and to keep them on very shaky peace treaties - but its working and we don't stop there, we go and invest in these countries. Yes, I agree South Africa will profit from these investments, but at least it remains in Africa!

Have a blast in Ghana, it's a beautiful country with a fantastic culture, eyebrow raising but fascinating at the same time!!

Peace

[Yao]

Re: (i'm going to continue) millions in Africa on 'brink of starvation

lol

Yes, I have neglected to mention that despite Mbeki's faults he is at present one of the most development-orientated leaders in Africa, and one of maybe 3 or 4 of whom I'm 100% sure they actually have the mandate of their people in what they are doing. For that matter, I too hold him in high regard I must admit, though probably being an outsider my view maybe influenced by some of the things he has done or said that discredited him on some points in my view. Nevertheless, I can't ignore what the man has done for South Africa and Africa as a continent since he succeeded Mandela: he did get it on the G8 agenda for sure, and even if his dream of the African Reneissance might not be completely based on possibilities, at least his dream has hopefully put something in motion that will make people on the continent and outside rethink their efforts in a positive way.

Maybe Africa needs an idealist of his caliber anyway at this moment...who can tell what the results of this will be in the future? And although NEPAD itself has been degraded greatly because of the compromises that had to be made, this has also put the light on some of the most persistent problems that need adressing before real development can take place. And that's a start at least.

It is much harder to start up reforms in a transnational setting than it is nationally: Mbeki has so far done quite a good job despite a number of problems that remain, but on continental level it's going be so much harder. I;m actually hoping for one or two other leaders of his stature to arise...that might be just what he needs. And those leaders should come from different parts of the continent.

I do have a question Rhipkin: what are your thoughts on his being silent on Mugabe's policies which have basically wrecked Zimbabwe?

[rhipkin]

Re: (i'm going to continue) millions in Africa on 'brink of starvation

I do have a question Rhipkin: what are your thoughts on his being silent on Mugabe's policies which have basically wrecked Zimbabwe?

Ah man me and the ordinary South African on the street are seriously questioning Mbheki's stance on quiet diplomacy with regards to Mugabe's complete annihilation of his countries economy. I cannot fathom his reasons for this, I have searched high and low, had internal struggles, sleepless night trying to understand his approach but fail miserbly every time. In South Africa we are undergoing land redistribution whereby white farmers are having their farms bought and given back the rightful landowners which had that land taken from them by forced by the old apartheid goverment. I and many South African's understand the need for this, it's all part of the upliftment of the previously disadvantaged. However, in Mugabe's case he just completely mashed up that. As a result his level of inflation shot up to 700% I think ... could be wrong. 70% of Zimbwabwe's agriculture now has to be imported...... see there's that vicious circle starting again!! We supplying them with fuel, food, electricity - why???? Is it a case of racism? Is this to "get back at Blair and white supremacy"? What is the end result? Personally I think Mugabe has lost the plot, he has some brain disease. He realises that his days are almost up - he's a bully who wants to leave to go live out his life in his mansion in some exotic country having left his successor with a broken country. I cannot understand why Mbheki sits silently and observes - it is destroying Africa - the rest of the world see's this and shakes their heads and mutters.... "Typical Africa." Cracks my toilet bowl big time!!!

[Yao]

Re: (i'm going to continue) millions in Africa on 'brink of starvation

Yeah, and the 'typical africa' is getting less and less true, though I have to admit that many leaders still look at democracy and freedoms differently than Europeans. On the other hand, who are we to push our system and definitions onto another continent?

About Mugabe: I am not against the land reforms themselves the way they are conducted in South-Africa. It's right that the land goes back to those who owned it before it was taken from them, and in South-Africa the slower rate gives time for the new proprietaries to acquire the skills needed to cultivate it.
The forced reforms in Zimbabwe have had as their main effect that all knowledge got wiped out at once, without a slow transition process to transfer it to the new owners: they know jack shit about cultivating such big plots, they're used to the labour-extensive way, not the capital-extensive. Takes only a few months for a big farm to grind to a halt that way...

I also don't have a clue what is going on in Mugabe's head...he could've stepped back and gone to enjoy the capital he accumulated with his corrupt behaviour somewhere on a laid-back spot on this planet, but nooooo....he sets off to destroy his country before he leaves. Why? I don't have a fucking clue, but I'm almost inclined to say the same: the man must've lost his mind and his brains! I could at least understand it if he actually has something to gain from it, but he doesn't, unless he is seriously planning to stay in power until he dies. And if that is the case, he is definitely gone mad and the people are fucked. Because he's treating them like less than shit (he'd at least pay attention to a turd to avoid stepping into it with his polished 600-dollar shoes).

In some cases I wish Executive Outcomes were still around...you could hire them off the record and get the shit ended....

[asdf_admin]

Re: (i'm going to continue) millions in Africa on 'brink of starvation

The Constant Gardener imo.

[Yao]

Re: (i'm going to continue) millions in Africa on 'brink of starvation

That is only symbolic for the Africa-West relations...

[rhipkin]

Re: (i'm going to continue) millions in Africa on 'brink of starvation

In some cases I wish Executive Outcomes were still around...you could hire them off the record and get the shit ended....

Oh man don't even go there!!! ....lol..... I think they got abit shook up after they got nabbed in Zim.... although there are still quite a few fighting in other African countries....

Bad news that crowd!!