A little perspective on Iran

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  • mixu
    Travel Guru Extraordinaire
    • Jun 2004
    • 1115

    A little perspective on Iran



    The west has picked a fight with Iran that it cannot win

    Washington's kneejerk belligerence ignores Tehran's influence and the need for subtle engagement

    Simon Jenkins
    Wednesday January 18, 2006
    The Guardian

    Never pick a fight you know you cannot win. Or so I was told. Pick an argument if you must, but not a fight. Nothing I have read or heard in recent weeks suggests that fighting Iran over its nuclear enrichment programme makes any sense at all. The very talk of it - macho phrases about "all options open" - suggests an international community so crazed with video game enforcement as to have lost the power of coherent thought.

    Iran is a serious country, not another two-bit post-imperial rogue waiting to be slapped about the head by a white man. It is the fourth largest oil producer in the world. Its population is heading towards 80 million by 2010. Its capital, Tehran, is a mighty metropolis half as big again as London. Its culture is ancient and its political life is, to put it mildly, fluid.

    All the following statements about Iran are true. There are powerful Iranians who want to build a nuclear bomb. There are powerful ones who do not. There are people in Iran who would like Israel to disappear. There are people who would not. There are people who would like Islamist rule. There are people who would not. There are people who long for some idiot western politician to declare war on them. There are people appalled at the prospect. The only question for western strategists is which of these people they want to help.

    Of all the treaties passed in my lifetime the 1968 nuclear non-proliferation treaty (NPT) always seemed the most implausible. It was an insiders' club that any outsider could defy with a modicum of guile. So it has proved. America, sitting armed to the teeth across Korea's demilitarised zone, has let North Korea become a nuclear power despite a 1994 promise that it would not. America supported Israel in going nuclear. Britain and America did not balk at India doing so, nor Pakistan when it not only built a bomb but deceitfully disseminated its technology in defiance of sanctions. Three flagrant dissenters from the NPT are thus regarded by America as friends.

    I would sleep happier if there were no Iranian bomb but a swamp of hypocrisy separates me from overly protesting it. Iran is a proud country that sits between nuclear Pakistan and India to its east, a nuclear Russia to its north and a nuclear Israel to its west. Adjacent Afghanistan and Iraq are occupied at will by a nuclear America, which backed Saddam Hussein in his 1980 invasion of Iran. How can we say such a country has "no right" to nuclear defence?

    None the less this month's reopening of the Natanz nuclear enrichment plant and two others, though purportedly for peaceful uses, was a clear act of defiance by Iran's new president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Inspectors from the UN's International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) remain unsure whether it implies a secret weapons programme but the evidence for this is far stronger than, for instance, against Saddam Hussein. To have infuriated the IAEA's Mohamed ElBaradei takes some doing. As Saddam found, deviousness in nuclear matters is bound to arouse suspicion. Either way, the reopening yielded a strong diplomatic coalition of Europe, America, Russia and China in pleading with Ahmadinejad to desist.

    On Monday, Washington's kneejerk belligerence put this coalition under immediate strain. In two weeks the IAEA must decide whether to report Iran to the UN security council for possible sanctions. There seems little point in doing this if China and Russia vetoes it or if there is no plan B for what to do if such pressure fails to halt enrichment, which seems certain. A clear sign of western floundering are speeches and editorials concluding that Iran "should not take international concern lightly", the west should "be on its guard" and everyone "should think carefully". It means nobody has a clue.

    I cannot see how all this confrontation will stop Iran doing whatever it likes with its nuclear enrichment, which is reportedly years away from producing weapons-grade material. The bombing of carefully dispersed and buried sites might delay deployment. But given the inaccuracy of American bombers, the death and destruction caused to Iran's cities would be a gift to anti-western extremists and have every world terrorist reporting for duty.

    Nor would the "coward's war" of economic sanctions be any more effective. Refusing to play against Iranian footballers (hated by the clerics), boycotting artists, ostracising academics, embargoing commerce, freezing foreign bank accounts - so-called smart sanctions - are as counterproductive as could be imagined. Such feelgood gestures drive the enemies of an embattled regime into silence, poverty or exile. As Timothy Garton Ash wrote in these pages after a recent visit, western aggression "would drain overnight its still large reservoir of anti-regime, mildly pro-western sentiment".

    By all accounts Ahmadinejad is not secure. He is subject to the supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. His foe, Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani, retains some power. Tehran is not a Saddamist dictatorship or a Taliban autocracy. It is a shambolic oligarchy with bureaucrats and technocrats jostling for power with clerics. Despite a quarter century of effort, the latter have not created a truly fundamentalist islamic state. Iran is a classic candidate for the politics of subtle engagement.

    This means strengthening every argument in the hands of those Iranians who do not want nuclear weapons or Israel eliminated, who crave a secular state and good relations with the west. No such argument embraces name-calling, sabre-rattling, sanctions or bombs.

    At this very moment, US officials in Baghdad are on their knees begging Iran-backed Shia politicians and militias to help them get out of Iraq. From Basra to the suburbs of Baghdad, Iranian influence is dominant. Iranian posters adorned last month's elections. Whatever Bush and Blair thought they were doing by invading Iraq, they must have known the chief beneficiary from toppling the Sunni ascendancy would be Shia Iran. They cannot now deny the logic of their own policy. Democracy itself is putting half Iraq in thrall to its powerful neighbour.

    Iran is the regional superstate. If ever there were a realpolitik demanding to be "hugged close" it is this one, however distasteful its leader and his centrifuges. If you cannot stop a man buying a gun, the next best bet is to make him your friend, not your enemy.
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  • thesightless
    Someone will marry me. Hell Yeah!
    • Jun 2004
    • 13567

    #2
    Re: A little perspective on Iran

    two words

    hiroshima

    nagasaki

    and i dont mean us doing it to them. more like Haifa and jerusalem.
    your life is an occasion, rise to it.

    Join My Chant. new mix. april 09. dirty fuck house.
    download that. deep shit listed there

    my dick is its own superhero.

    Comment

    • superdave
      Platinum Poster
      • Jun 2004
      • 1366

      #3
      Re: A little perspective on Iran

      Another European columnist that attacks America, but offers no real solutions except "be their friend". Appeasing Hitler didn't work out too well for the Euroepans did it? The real issue is are they going to build a nuclear weapon or not. If they do, not only the U.S. has a problem with that, but the entire world does. This isn't a U.S. vs the world debate. This is up to Iran to decide.

      As for the powerful Iranian army, if there is a war, most likely, it won't be just America attacking them either.
      Never interrupt your enemy when he's making a mistake - Napoleon Bonaparte

      Comment

      • Hos
        Are you Kidding me??
        • Jun 2004
        • 4286

        #4
        Re: A little perspective on Iran

        simon jenkins has proved to be an excellent signing by the guardian from the times.

        an excellent article.
        black is the new black www.mercuryserver.com

        Comment

        • Yao
          DUDERZ get a life!!!
          • Jun 2004
          • 8167

          #5
          Re: A little perspective on Iran

          Dave, what do you think would happen if Iran were attacked. Would the rest of the Middle East sit back and watch?
          Blowkick visual & graphic design - No Civilization. Now With Broadband.

          There are but three true sports -- bullfighting, mountain climbing, and motor-racing. The rest are merely games. -Hemingway

          Comment

          • runningman
            Playa I'm a Sooth Saya
            • Jun 2004
            • 5995

            #6
            Re: A little perspective on Iran

            nop.. it would get really bad and the saudi's would probably step in.. but the bottom line is that we as people have to leave religion out of it in order for us as humans to develop..religion holds us back from becoming better people.

            Comment

            • toasty
              Sir Toastiness
              • Jun 2004
              • 6585

              #7
              Re: A little perspective on Iran

              You know, it's rare that you can get the US, China, Russia and the EU to all agree that another country is doing something wrong. Looks like this Iran thing could be a real issue.

              Thankfully, we've conserved all of our military resources and are ready to go in the event that action needs to be taken. It would be a shame if we had tied up our troops in some boondoggle or something.



              As I've always maintained, my biggest problem with the whole Iraq thing was the timing. We didn't finish the job in Afghanistan before we went into Iraq, and now our military is spread too thin when we really need them. Even if you agree with everything Bush has done conceptually, I have a hard time understanding how people can really be cheerleaders for the job he's doing from a military standpoint. Whether it's incompetence, short-sightedness, or something else, our current situation is fucking embarrassing.

              Comment

              • neoee
                Platinum Poster
                • Jun 2004
                • 1266

                #8
                Re: A little perspective on Iran

                Originally posted by toasty
                Thankfully, we've conserved all of our military resources and are ready to go in the event that action needs to be taken. It would be a shame if we had tied up our troops in some boondoggle or something.

                "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." -Benjamin Franklin

                Comment

                • Yao
                  DUDERZ get a life!!!
                  • Jun 2004
                  • 8167

                  #9
                  Re: A little perspective on Iran

                  Originally posted by runningman
                  nop.. it would get really bad and the saudi's would probably step in.. but the bottom line is that we as people have to leave religion out of it in order for us as humans to develop..religion holds us back from becoming better people.
                  Now with that I fucking 1000% agree Runningman.
                  Blowkick visual & graphic design - No Civilization. Now With Broadband.

                  There are but three true sports -- bullfighting, mountain climbing, and motor-racing. The rest are merely games. -Hemingway

                  Comment

                  • superdave
                    Platinum Poster
                    • Jun 2004
                    • 1366

                    #10
                    Re: A little perspective on Iran

                    Originally posted by Yao
                    Dave, what do you think would happen if Iran were attacked. Would the rest of the Middle East sit back and watch?
                    Yes, I don't think anyone would join Iran in fighting the members of the UN Security council. Saudis and Pakistan are too close of allies with America and Europe to defend Iran. Sure, Syria and the Palestenians would condemn attacks on Iran, but I don't see them as credible threats.
                    Never interrupt your enemy when he's making a mistake - Napoleon Bonaparte

                    Comment

                    • BSully828
                      Platinum Poster
                      • Jun 2004
                      • 1221

                      #11
                      Re: A little perspective on Iran

                      Originally posted by runningman
                      but the bottom line is that we as people have to leave religion out of it in order for us as humans to develop..religion holds us back from becoming better people.
                      Originally posted by yao
                      Now with that I fucking 1000% agree Runningman.
                      Here, here -- Dogma is the downfall of reason.

                      The rules of a 2000 year old superstition should not dictate the actions of the modern mind.

                      Should being the operative word, of course - although it becomes more and more apparent that the majority would rather live their life by an ancient text, rather than personal experience.

                      Ahh well, there's always the next life...
                      Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not;
                      a sense of humor to console him for what he is.

                      Comment

                      • Yao
                        DUDERZ get a life!!!
                        • Jun 2004
                        • 8167

                        #12
                        Re: A little perspective on Iran

                        Originally posted by superdave
                        Yes, I don't think anyone would join Iran in fighting the members of the UN Security council. Saudis and Pakistan are too close of allies with America and Europe to defend Iran. Sure, Syria and the Palestenians would condemn attacks on Iran, but I don't see them as credible threats.
                        Those latter two countries i will agree on, but with Saudi Arabia in control over much of the oil reserves...and don't forget that in S-A and Iran we have a Shi'ite majority: i'm afriad they will come to the aid of their brethren, despite the consequences that might have.

                        Pakistan...unsure. It is predominantly Muslim, and has nukes. I really have no clue as to where they stand, although they do have stronger bonds with the UN than S-A.
                        Blowkick visual & graphic design - No Civilization. Now With Broadband.

                        There are but three true sports -- bullfighting, mountain climbing, and motor-racing. The rest are merely games. -Hemingway

                        Comment

                        • runningman
                          Playa I'm a Sooth Saya
                          • Jun 2004
                          • 5995

                          #13
                          Re: A little perspective on Iran

                          Iran and Syria here we come.. The USA is blaming Iran and Syria for all the violence across the muslim world.. Bye Syria..

                          Comment

                          • evangelion
                            Platinum Poster
                            • Jun 2004
                            • 1999

                            #14
                            Re: A little perspective on Iran

                            Originally posted by BSully828
                            The rules of a 2000 year old superstition should not dictate the actions of the modern mind.
                            That's it, right there

                            And what is this all about??


                            So why are we able to see that religion is bullshit, and they cannot?? I was raised in a strict Catholic environment, which either made me rebel against religion at a young age or exposed me to its faults. Either way, my point is that I changed my way of thinking on my own...why can't they?? They are so content to let this ancient way of thinking rule their daily lives, without so much as a thought that it might be a little on the extremely fanatical side. So something comes out that offends this way of thinking that they so blindly follow and their way of dealing with it is to riot, fuck shit up and basically prove every preconceived notion and sterotype right.

                            Now, someone rationalize all of this to me and make me see how America's problems and faults, which all of the world will point out at any given chance, are somehow worse.

                            Comment

                            • sammwalk
                              Gold Gabber
                              • Jun 2004
                              • 769

                              #15
                              Re: A little perspective on Iran

                              Originally posted by evangelion
                              So why are we able to see that religion is bullshit, and they cannot?? I was raised in a strict Catholic environment, which either made me rebel against religion at a young age or exposed me to its faults. Either way, my point is that I changed my way of thinking on my own...why can't they?? They are so content to let this ancient way of thinking rule their daily lives, without so much as a thought that it might be a little on the extremely fanatical side. So something comes out that offends this way of thinking that they so blindly follow and their way of dealing with it is to riot, fuck shit up and basically prove every preconceived notion and sterotype right.
                              Well, in strongly Islamic countries, Muslims are not surrounded by free thinkers who are constantly questioning religion like we are here in the US, Europe, etc. Since there is little plurality of religion in these countries (or if there is, it doesn't matter because the government is religiously controlled), alternatives are non-existent. The encouragement to make up one's own mind is a feature of western society (rugged individualism), not all societies, especially not religious ones where people are systematically kept in the dark to be controlled.

                              Iran is different from the other Islamic states. We may now make a very loose comparison between Bush and Ahmadinejad: both are leaders of strong countries where large portions of the populace does not support their politics. So, we cannot believe that Iran=Ahmadinejad, or else we believe that the US=Bush. Since we don't believe that, we can't approach the situation by saying, "let's bomb 'em". We have to find a way to topple Ahmadinejad/Islamic rule to allow the reasonable people to surface.

                              Yes, a nuclear Iran is scary. I don't agree with his argument that, since Iran lies between Pakistan, Russia, and Israel, it is justified in building nuclear weapons. But we are beyond justification at this point; whoever can build them will. What are we going to do about it? Million to one: nothing. Sanctions don't count. Military action will certainly not take place, at least not until Iran make overtures of an invasion or attack.

                              It is not appeasment to appeal to Iran's pro-western element. We certainly don't want to appease Ahmadinejad, but we should try to do what we can with the people in Iran who want a secular democratic government before marching off to war. Sort of a reverse Iran contra, if you will.

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