Thoughts On Kabbalah

[ZendoBro]

So the whole Hollywood craze sparked my interest about the religion and I've purchased a couple of books on the subject matter, but I was wondering what other people's thoughts on it are.

[thesightless]

Re: Thoughts On Kabbalah

madonna and britney spears????

sounds like a bunch of morons are trying to ruin judiaism

[geoffgulley]

Re: Thoughts On Kabbalah

So the whole Hollywood craze sparked my interest about the religion and I've purchased a couple of books on the subject matter, but I was wondering what other people's thoughts on it are.

See Scientology........ Anything that has "Hollywood craze" attached to it I want no part of.

[sakio pod]

Re: Thoughts On Kabbalah

evil monsters small hands smell like cabbage

[peloquin]

Re: Thoughts On Kabbalah

yup, fuck that shit

[3d_1200]

Re: Thoughts On Kabbalah

god everytime i hear scientology i think of that south park episode.

GO AHEAD! SUE ME!

[Kobe]

Re: Thoughts On Kabbalah

is that a religion? yeah, then I don't give a fuck

[ZendoBro]

Re: Thoughts On Kabbalah

I was afraid the thread would take this turn. I'm just saying Hollywood sparked my interest about it but I don't consider Madonna by any means to be a representative of this religion, and by the way Kabbalah has been around for a lot lot longer than Hollywood. Don't discredit it because of Hollywood.

[daveman]

Re: Thoughts On Kabbalah

the kabbalah is form of judaica that focuses more on the mystical side of the religion. it is something that really should only be proformed by hasidic jews (very orthodox). these orthodox jews put women in a high place in the home, but a very low place in world. no one who is a true believer in kabalistic ritual would ever let a woman into thier services. let alone try to run things.

as for madonna and britney. they are being used as propaganda for what i could only imagine is a very lax, perhaps reformed form of kabbalah. kabbalah's teachings and rituals have been secret for over 5000 years. anything important to kabbalah will probably never be shared with either madonna or britney.

(my opinon/rant) it along with any religion is just a system in place to make you feel at peace with yourself. if a couple of goofy money grubbin rabbi's want to use them (madonna/brit) as poster women for their cause or to help sell books fine by me, but your only making yourself look like a fool according to the traditions that you teach.

[ZendoBro]

Re: Thoughts On Kabbalah

the kabbalah is form of judaica that focuses more on the mystical side of the religion. it is something that really should only be proformed by hasidic jews (very orthodox). these orthodox jews put women in a high place in the home, but a very low place in world. no one who is a true believer in kabalistic ritual would ever let a woman into thier services. let alone try to run things.

as for madonna and britney. they are being used as propaganda for what i could only imagine is a very lax, perhaps reformed form of kabbalah. kabbalah's teachings and rituals have been secret for over 5000 years. anything important to kabbalah will probably never be shared with either madonna or britney.

(my opinon/rant) it along with any religion is just a system in place to make you feel at peace with yourself. if a couple of goofy money grubbin rabbi's want to use them (madonna/brit) as poster women for their cause or to help sell books fine by me, but your only making yourself look like a fool according to the traditions that you teach.

Thanks for the intelligible answer. I had read though in a book I recently purchased that Kabbalah can be openly practiced by all now. Seems like the author is a reputable source.

[daveman]

Re: Thoughts On Kabbalah

Thanks for the intelligible answer. I had read though in a book I recently purchased that Kabbalah can be openly practiced by all now. Seems like the author is a reputable source.

thanks for the complement. i'm not known around here for intelligible answers thats for sure.

im sure that the author knows a thing or two, but it has got to be hard to teach a certain portion of judaica to anyone who doesn't know much about being jewish in the first place. that seems to be the impression i'm getting with the kabbalah kick, that people buy into it and not necessarily the teachings from the torah. i don't know much about either but they definately should go hand in hand.

[dig72]

Re: Thoughts On Kabbalah

Found this on the net. Interesting.

"Chernobyl, Chernobyl", Healing water, Red string bracelets????

$$$$$$$$$$$

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/9901

[ZendoBro]

Re: Thoughts On Kabbalah

Again. Madonna=crap Kabbalist. I know the Red strings are crap too.

[davetlv]

Re: Thoughts On Kabbalah

ZendoBro

There is much more to the Kabbalah than red bracelets and Phillip Bergs Kabbalah Centre.

I found this piece on the Jewish Virtual Library (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/.../kabbalah.html)

Kabbalah is the name applied to the whole range of Jewish mystical activity. While codes of Jewish law focus on what it is God wants from man, kabbalah tries to penetrate deeper, to God's essence itself.

There are elements of kabbalah in the Bible, for example, in the opening chapter of Ezekiel, where the prophet describes his experience of the divine: "... the heavens opened and I saw visions of God.... I looked and lo, a stormy wind came sweeping out of the north-a huge cloud and flashing fire, surrounded by a radiance; and in the center of the fire, a gleam as of amber" (1:1,4). The prophet then describes a divine chariot and the throne of God.

The rabbis of the Talmud regarded the mystical study of God as important yet dangerous. A famous talmudic story tells of four rabbis, Azzai, Ben Zoma, Elisha ben Abuyah, and Akiva who would meet together and engage in mystical studies. Azzai, the Talmud records, "looked and went mad [and] Ben Zoma died." Elisha ben Abuyah became a heretic and left Judaism. Rabbi Akiva alone "entered in peace and left in peace." It was this episode, the later experiences of individuals who became mentally unbalanced while engaging in mystical activities, and the disaster of the false Messiah Shabbetai Zevi that caused seventeenth-century rabbis to legislate that kabbalah should be studied only by married men over forty who were also scholars of Torah and Talmud. The medieval rabbis wanted the study of kabbalah limited to people of mature years and character.

The most famous work of kabbalah, the Zohar, was revealed to the Jewish world in the thirteenth century by Moses De Leon, who claimed that the book contained the mystical writings of the second-century rabbi Simeon bar Yochai. Almost all modern Jewish academic scholars believe that De Leon himself authored the Zohar, although many Orthodox kabbalists continue to accept De Leon's attribution of it to Simeon bar Yochai. Indeed, Orthodox mystics are apt to see Bar Yochai not so much as the Zohar's author as the recorder of mystical traditions dating back to the time of Moses. The intensity with which Orthodox kabbalists hold this conviction was revealed to me once when I was arguing a point of Jewish law with an elderly religious scholar. He referred to a certain matter as being in the Torah, and when I asked him where, he said: "It's in the Zohar. Is that not the same as if it was in the Torah itself?"

The Zohar is written in Aramaic (the language of the Talmud) in the form of a commentary on the five books of the Torah. Whereas most commentaries interpret the Torah as a narrative and legal work, mystics are as likely to interpret it "as a system of symbols which reveal the secret laws of the universe and even the secrets of God" (Deborah Kerdeman and Lawrence Kushner, The Invisible Chariot, p. 90). To cite one example, Leviticus 26 records "a carrot and a stick" that God offers the Jewish people. If they follow his decrees, He will reward them. But if they spurn them, God will "set His face" against the people: "I will discipline you sevenfold for your sins...." and "I will scatter you among the nations" (26:28, 33). At the chapter's conclusion, God says: "Yet, even then, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject them or spurn them so as to destroy them, breaking My covenant with them, for I am the Lord, their God" (26:44).

On this series of admonitions, the Zohar comments: "Come and see the pure love of the Blessed Holy One for Israel. A parable: There was a king who had a single son who kept misbehaving. One day he offended the king. The king said, 'I have punished you so many times and you have not [changed]. Now look, what should I do with you? If I banish you from the land and expel you from the kingdom, perhaps wild beasts or wolves or robbers will attack you and you will be no more. What can I do? The only solution is that I and you together leave the land.' So . . . the Blessed Holy One said as follows: 'Israel, what should I do with you? I have already punished you and you have not heeded Me. I have brought fearsome warriors and flaming forces to strike at you and you have not obeyed. If I expel you from the land alone, I fear that packs of wolves and bears will attack you and you will be no more. But what can I do with you? The only solution is that I and you together leave the land and both of us go into exile. As it is written, 'I will discipline you,' forcing you into exile; but if you think that I will abandon you, Myself too [shall go] along with you."'

There are many strands of teaching in the kabbalah. Medieval kabbalists, for example, were wont to speak of God as the En Sof (That Which Is Without Limit). The En Sof is inaccessible and unknowable to man. But God reveals Himself to mankind through a series of ten emanations, sefirot, a configuration of forces that issue from the En Sof . The first of these sefirot is keter (crown) and refers to God's will to create. Another sefira, binah (understanding), represents the unfolding in God's mind of the details of creation, while hesed (lovingkindness) refers to the uncontrolled flow of divine goodness. Most of the sefirot are regarded as legitimate objects for human meditation; they represent a way in which human beings can make contact with God. Through contemplation and virtuous deeds, human beings can also bring down the divine grace to this world.

The greatest scholar and historian of kabbalah in this century was the late Professor Gershom Scholem of Hebrew University in Jerusalem. Scholem, himself a nonobservant Jew, was fond of explaining how he became attracted to so esoteric a discipline: "My decision to study Jewish mysticism came the day I visited the home of a famous German rabbi, a person with a reputation for scholarship in the kabbalah.... Seeing on his shelf some mystical texts with intriguing titles, I had, with all the enthusiasm of youth, asked the rabbi about them. 'This junk,' the rabbi had laughed at me. 'I should waste time reading nonsense like this?' It was then . . . that I decided here was a field in which I could make an impression. If this man can become an authority without reading the text, then what might I become if I actually read the books?"

As a rule, mekubbalim (people who actively study and practice kabbalah) are skeptical of men like Scholem, who studied kabbalah as a university discipline and not from a personal conviction of its truth. One mekubbal, Rabbi Abraham Chen, declared on one occasion before a seminar of Scholem's students: "A scholar of mysticism is like an accountant: He may know where all the treasure is, but he is not free to use it." A precisely opposite view on the value of kabbalah was taken by the late Professor Saul Lieberman, the great Talmud scholar of the Jewish Theological Seminary. In an introduction to a lecture Scholem delivered at the seminary, Lieberman said that several years earlier, some students asked to have a course here in which they could study kabbalistic texts. He had told them that it was not possible, but if they wished they could have a course on the history of kabbalah. For at a university, Lieberman said, "it is forbidden to have a course in nonsense. But the history of nonsense, that is scholarship."

Lieberman's caustic comment aside, kabbalah has long been one of the important areas of Jewish thought. Ideas that many contemporary Jews might think of as un-Jewish sometimes are found in the kabbalah, most notably, the belief in reincarnation (gilgul neshamot). Between 1500 and 1800, Scholem has written, "kabbalah was widely considered to be the true Jewish theology," and almost no one attacked it. With the Jewish entrance into the modern world, however-a world in which rational thinking was more highly esteemed than the mystical-kabbalah tended to be downgraded or ignored. In recent years, there has been an upsurge of interest in kabbalah, and today it is commonly studied among Hasidic Jews, and among many non-Orthodox Jews who are part of the counterculture