Johnny Boy does it again.....

[evangelion]

So I'm laying on my bed, just kinda listening to the news. And all of a sudden I hear Johnny Boy's unmistakable voice taking shots at Bush (as usual). He's going on and on about this and that when the last thing he says...and I quote (kinda, I was half asleep) "a president who won't even give our soldiers the things they need, like body armor!!!"

WHAT!!!!!

If I'm not mistaken isn't this the man who voted against funding for the war, voted to cancel the M1 Abrams, and has basically tried everything in his power to reduce the military in any way possible????

I said flip, flop
A flip, flip, flop and ya don't stop

And judging from the poll in the other forum most of you want this guy to RUN OUR COUNTRY AND MOST OF THE FREE WORLD!!!!!!

Hilarious!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CosmicbOi]

Re:: Johnny Boy does it again.....

ahh the infamous 'flip flop' ..
haha..since my mom is dating a rather annoying Politician, i am very familiar with these flip flops..
..being able to flip flop around issues seems to be a prerequisite for being a Politician nowadays..

But then again, if some1 makes an argument which criticizes an opponent's policy, they don't necessarily have to sell the wisdom of their own viewpoint at the same time.
..so instead of trying to *gain* a vote, they can focus on trying to *take* a vote away from their opponent.. in the end, if a voter decides NOT to vote for some1 in particular, it makes the job of the other guy much much easier..

stoopid marketing stratagies need to stay out of Politics dammit..!!

nick

[toasty]

Re: Johnny Boy does it again.....

So I'm laying on my bed, just kinda listening to the news. And all of a sudden I hear Johnny Boy's unmistakable voice taking shots at Bush (as usual). He's going on and on about this and that when the last thing he says...and I quote (kinda, I was half asleep) "a president who won't even give our soldiers the things they need, like body armor!!!"

...

If I'm not mistaken isn't this the man who voted against funding for the war, voted to cancel the M1 Abrams, and has basically tried everything in his power to reduce the military in any way possible????

Comments like this demonstrate the regrettable absence of independent thought in politics these days, where folks just parrot the sound bites they hear coming out of the spin doctors. Most bills today are filled with pork, and both parties will cite a person's failure to vote for a particular bill as evidence that they oppose every single component of that bill -- it is your job as an intelligent voter to separate the wheat from the chaff. Dig deeper, dude.

Kerry did not vote against funding the war -- as I recall, when Bush asked for that $87B, there was no immediate strategy, no exit strategy, no indication of where that money was going to go, and Bush was in the midst of an unprecedented spending spree, here and abroad. Kerry voted against giving a blank check to a guy that had yet to show any fiscal responsibility. When you consider that not all of this money is being pumped into the US Military -- much of it goes to private security firms (US pays them more up front than our service men and women -- about $500 a day per soldier, but doesn't have to pay health benefits, long term benefits, etc.) and private industry (e.g., Halliburton) -- I don't think it is unreasonable to want to have some idea of where that money is going. Personally, I'd prefer that it go to the brave men and women that are serving our country rather than paying mercenaries and corporate fat cats.

Evidently, both Bush and Kerry have accused the other of not providing basic needs to our troops, citing body armor specifically. Guess what? Contrary to popular belief, body armor is not part of the standard uniform -- the people that need it, get it, but not everyone wears it as a matter of course. Perhaps they should, but using it as a political tool is as valid and standing up and saying, "Bush/Kerry has denied Carmen Miranda hats to our soldiers." It is wrong for both of these yahoos to turn it into a political issue, but hey, welcome to the wonderful world of politics.

Kerry, if I'm not mistaken, advocates sending more troops into Iraq. More than any other Democrat in recent memory, he definitely supports a strong military. Unlike W, he actually has the military chops to assist his military decision-making. Yet, because he voted against a few pork-laden bills, he's portrayed as being soft militarily. Whatever.

[Jenks]

http://www.georgewbush.com/kerrymediacenter/read.aspx?ID=2439

quite a long list of flip flopping.

[devon]

Re: Johnny Boy does it again.....

So I'm laying on my bed, just kinda listening to the news. And all of a sudden I hear Johnny Boy's unmistakable voice taking shots at Bush (as usual). He's going on and on about this and that when the last thing he says...and I quote (kinda, I was half asleep) "a president who won't even give our soldiers the things they need, like body armor!!!"

WHAT!!!!!

If I'm not mistaken isn't this the man who voted against funding for the war, voted to cancel the M1 Abrams, and has basically tried everything in his power to reduce the military in any way possible????

I said flip, flop
A flip, flip, flop and ya don't stop

And judging from the poll in the other forum most of you want this guy to RUN OUR COUNTRY AND MOST OF THE FREE WORLD!!!!!!

Hilarious!!!!!!!!!!!!

your boy bush cut the retirement and miltary pay for our soldiers. just this year

and for you to say "this man did everything in his power to cut the military in any way possible" is ignorant.

or wait kerry wants to eliminate our entire military and give the money to welfare receipents. has no backbone and cave into any enemy of the united states. now that's hilarious

[toasty]

http://www.georgewbush.com/kerrymediacenter/read.aspx?ID=2439

quite a long list of flip flopping.

Quite a bit of spin and presenting statements and positions which are not, in fact, inconsistent, as polar-opposite flip-flopping, too.

Let's assume for the sake of argument, however, that these are legitimate flip-flops. Is that really so terrible or startling? Kerry is a politician, and as such is accountable to his constituency. His job is to do the will of the people. If doing the will of the people requires that he change his position, then as a Senator, he should do so. I would prefer that the man I elect be flexible enough to conform to the wishes of the majority of the people he represents even if that changes over time. Of course, I don't want someone wishy-washy, but there is a balance there somewhere.

For example, despite the fact that a very small percentage of the country would consider themselves "born again Christians," how many times has Bush pushed that agenda because he's beholden to the religious right? This bugs me to no end.

[Jenks]

yeah i hear ya...

THE CHRISTIANS CAN GO STRAIGHT TO HELL ....imho.

[evangelion]

Re: Johnny Boy does it again.....

...folks just parrot the sound bites they hear coming out of the spin doctors.

Let me get this straight to make sure I'm following you correctly. These comments came out of Kerry's mouth. So...Kerry is his own spin doctor????

Please clarify.

[toasty]

Re: Johnny Boy does it again.....

If I'm not mistaken isn't this the man who voted against funding for the war, voted to cancel the M1 Abrams, and has basically tried everything in his power to reduce the military in any way possible????

These are the sound bites to which I refer, not Kerry saying that Bush is "a president who won't even give our soldiers the things they need, like body armor!!!"

[evangelion]

Re: Johnny Boy does it again.....

If I'm not mistaken isn't this the man who voted against funding for the war, voted to cancel the M1 Abrams, and has basically tried everything in his power to reduce the military in any way possible????

These are the sound bites to which I refer, not Kerry saying that Bush is "a president who won't even give our soldiers the things they need, like body armor!!!"

So just because they are soundbites means they are not true? Didn't Kerry himself admit that he intially voted for the $87 billion, then caved under pressure from his fellow lefties (which he would never admit, of course) and voted against it. Isn't military reduction a key philosophy of the Democratic party? Which is why there are rumors of a draft to strengthen our spread-to-thin military in the Middle East?

I'm afraid I'm still not following you.

[toasty]

Re: Johnny Boy does it again.....

So just because they are soundbites means they are not true?

Not necessarily, but:

1. They rarely tell the whole story;
2. They suggest that you are simply regurgitating something someone else said, which, as I pointed out in my initial response, reflects the absence of independent thought in politics amoing a lot of voters today -- the "Golly, the Bush/Cheney ads said it, so it must be true" phenomenon.

Didn't Kerry himself admit that he intially voted for the $87 billion, then caved under pressure from his fellow lefties (which he would never admit, of course) and voted against it.

The actual quote is, "I actually voted for the $87B before I voted against it." Here's the question though -- why? Kerry is a smart guy, and this comment was made after all the "flip-flop" criticism began -- if it is truly as much of a black mark upon him as you suggest, he would not have been so flip, if you'll pardon the pun, about referring to it in this fashion -- it would be political suicide. There is something else going on under the surface that your "sound bite" doesn't address. What does he say after that, for example?

Isn't military reduction a key philosophy of the Democratic party?

In a word, no. Even assuming arguendo that it was in the past, it certainly isn't now. Did you catch Edward's speech this evening? Certainly doesn't seem like there are any military reductions on the horizon...

Which is why there are rumors of a draft to strengthen our spread-to-thin military in the Middle East?

Now, I'm not following you. To the extent that the military is spread too thin, I haven't the foggiest what the democrats, who do not control the executive branch or either house of congress, could possibly have done to have caused it. Moreover, how does a policy of military reduction result in a draft? Seriously, please explain this, because I am banging my head against a wall trying to figure it out.

If we continue on the path we're on now, that Bush started, there will be a draft regardless of what party is in office.

[evangelion]

Re: Johnny Boy does it again.....

...the "Golly, the Bush/Cheney ads said it, so it must be true" phenomenon.

I'm not even talking about ads. I'm talking about quotes...straight from the mouth of the person in question. In this case...John Kerry.

Which is why there are rumors of a draft to strengthen our spread-to-thin military in the Middle East?

Now, I'm not following you. To the extent that the military is spread too thin, I haven't the foggiest what the democrats, who do not control the executive branch or either house of congress, could possibly have done to have caused it. Moreover, how does a policy of military reduction result in a draft? Seriously, please explain this, because I am banging my head against a wall trying to figure it out.

If we continue on the path we're on now, that Bush started, there will be a draft regardless of what party is in office.

What I'm getting at is Clinton's monumental gutting of the military. Don't quote me on this, but didn't Clinton have the biggest military reduction of any president ever? If that doesn't happen our current military isn't having to entertain thoughts of reinstating the draft because it would be at full war strength.

[rubyraks]

Re: Johnny Boy does it again.....

Isn't military reduction a key philosophy of the Democratic party?

Isn't fiscal responsibility a key philosophy of the Republican Party? Times change, lessons are learned (or not) and adjustments are made...

Which is why there are rumors of a draft to strengthen our spread-to-thin military in the Middle East?

Now, I'm not following you. To the extent that the military is spread too thin, I haven't the foggiest what the democrats, who do not control the executive branch or either house of congress, could possibly have done to have caused it. Moreover, how does a policy of military reduction result in a draft? Seriously, please explain this, because I am banging my head against a wall trying to figure it out.

If we continue on the path we're on now, that Bush started, there will be a draft regardless of what party is in office.

What I'm getting at is Clinton's monumental gutting of the military. Don't quote me on this, but didn't Clinton have the biggest military reduction of any president ever? If that doesn't happen our current military isn't having to entertain thoughts of reinstating the draft because it would be at full war strength.

Clinton's "gutting" of the military was a post-Cold War reorganization of the military. The military was shifted from man-powered strength to equipment-powered strength. Unfortunately, no one expected (or planned for) an all-out ground war. Hence, no one could have envisioned that our military would be spread so thin so quickly under these circumstances.

[fumanchu182]

Kerry SHOULD of just said listen here, BUSH yeah what a fuck up, he got us in the mess so what I am gonna do is give the soldiers what they need to do and finish their job and then let UN finish the political side of things. While we finish up over in Iraq lets take a look at home, BUSH fucked up the taxes so you know what, lets fix that to pre-bush era...

All he needs to do is say that and I guarantee an election by a landslide...

[Nekrolicious]

Re:: Johnny Boy does it again.....

I say we give both Bush and Kerry the finger, and elect someone who is actually qualified to represent our country to the rest of the world. Someone whose management skills aren't limited to propaganda, slander, and ambiguous rhetoric...but that would disqualify 99.9% of the politicians in the world.