Syria 'safeguarding' Saddams WMD's

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  • davetlv
    Platinum Poster
    • Jun 2004
    • 1205

    Syria 'safeguarding' Saddams WMD's

    Was Ariel Sharon right when he said in 2002 that Iraq's WMD's were being transferred to Syria. . . according to the no. 2 official in Saddam Hussein's air force, yes!

    The man who served as the no. 2 official in Saddam Hussein's air force says Iraq moved weapons of mass destruction into Syria before the war by loading the weapons into civilian aircraft in which the passenger seats were removed.

    The Iraqi general, Georges Sada, makes the charges in a new book, "Saddam's Secrets," released this week. He detailed the transfers in an interview yesterday with The New York Sun.

    "There are weapons of mass destruction gone out from Iraq to Syria, and they must be found and returned to safe hands," Mr. Sada said. "I am confident they were taken over."

    Mr. Sada's comments come just more than a month after Israel's top general during Operation Iraqi Freedom, Moshe Yaalon, told the Sun that Saddam "transferred the chemical agents from Iraq to Syria."

    Democrats have made the absence of stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq a theme in their criticism of the Bush administration's decision to go to war in 2003. And President Bush himself has conceded much of the point; in a televised prime-time address to Americans last month, he said, "It is true that many nations believed that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. But much of the intelligence turned out to be wrong."

    Said Mr. Bush, "We did not find those weapons."

    The discovery of the weapons in Syria could alter the American political debate on the Iraq war. And even the accusations that they are there could step up international pressure on the government in Damascus. That government, led by Bashar Assad, is already facing a U.N. investigation over its alleged role in the assassination of a former prime minister of Lebanon. The Bush administration has criticized Syria for its support of terrorism and its failure to cooperate with the U.N. investigation.

    The State Department recently granted visas for self-proclaimed opponents of Mr. Assad to attend a "Syrian National Council" meeting in Washington scheduled for this weekend, even though the attendees include communists, Baathists, and members of the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood group to the exclusion of other, more mainstream groups.

    Mr. Sada, 65, told the Sun that the pilots of the two airliners that transported the weapons of mass destruction to Syria from Iraq approached him in the middle of 2004, after Saddam was captured by American troops.

    "I know them very well. They are very good friends of mine. We trust each other. We are friends as pilots," Mr. Sada said of the two pilots. He declined to disclose their names, saying they are concerned for their safety. But he said they are now employed by other airlines outside Iraq.

    The pilots told Mr. Sada that two Iraqi Airways Boeings were converted to cargo planes by removing the seats, Mr. Sada said. Then Special Republican Guard brigades loaded materials onto the planes, he said, including "yellow barrels with skull and crossbones on each barrel." The pilots said there was also a ground convoy of trucks.

    The flights - 56 in total, Mr. Sada said - attracted little notice because they were thought to be civilian flights providing relief from Iraq to Syria, which had suffered a flood after a dam collapse in June of 2002.

    "Saddam realized, this time, the Americans are coming," Mr. Sada said. "They handed over the weapons of mass destruction to the Syrians."

    Mr. Sada said that the Iraqi official responsible for transferring the weapons was a cousin of Saddam Hussein named Ali Hussein al-Majid, known as "Chemical Ali." The Syrian official responsible for receiving them was a cousin of Bashar Assad who is known variously as General Abu Ali, Abu Himma, or Zulhimawe.

    Short of discovering the weapons in Syria, those seeking to validate Mr. Sada's claim independently will face difficulty. His book contains a foreword by a retired U.S. Air Force colonel, David Eberly, who was a prisoner of war in Iraq during the first Gulf War and who vouches for Mr. Sada, who once held him captive, as "an honest and honorable man."

    In his visit to the Sun yesterday, Mr. Sada was accompanied by Terry Law, the president of a Tulsa, Oklahoma based Christian humanitarian organization called World Compassion. Mr. Law said he has known Mr. Sada since 2002, lived in his house in Iraq and had Mr. Sada as a guest in his home in America. "Do I believe this man? Yes," Mr. Law said. "It's been solid down the line and everything checked out."

    Said Mr. Law, "This is not a publicity hound. This is a man who wants peace putting his family on the line."

    Mr. Sada acknowledged that the disclosures about transfers of weapons of mass destruction are "a very delicate issue." He said he was afraid for his family. "I am sure the terrorists will not like it. The Saddamists will not like it," he said.

    He thanked the American troops. "They liberated the country and the nation. It is a liberation force. They did a great job," he said. "We have been freed."

    He said he had not shared his story until now with any American officials. "I kept everything secret in my heart," he said. But he is scheduled to meet next week in Washington with Senators Sessions and Inhofe, Republicans of, respectively, Alabama and Oklahoma. Both are members of the Senate Armed Services Committee.

    The book also says that on the eve of the first Gulf War, Saddam was planning to use his air force to launch a chemical weapons attack on Israel.

    When, during an interview with the Sun in April 2004, Vice President Cheney was asked whether he thought that Iraqi weapons of mass destruction had been moved to Syria, Mr. Cheney replied only that he had seen such reports.

    An article in the Fall 2005 Middle East Quarterly reports that in an appearance on Israel's Channel 2 on December 23, 2002, Israel's prime minister, Ariel Sharon, stated, "Chemical and biological weapons which Saddam is endeavoring to conceal have been moved from Iraq to Syria." The allegation was denied by the Syrian government at the time as "completely untrue," and it attracted scant American press attention, coming as it did on the eve of the Christmas holiday.

    The Syrian ruling party and Saddam Hussein had in common the ideology of Baathism, a mixture of Nazism and Marxism.

    Syria is one of only eight countries that has not signed the Chemical Weapons Convention, a treaty that obligates nations not to stockpile or use chemical weapons. Syria's chemical warfare program, apart from any weapons that may have been received from Iraq, has long been the source of concern to America, Israel, and Lebanon. In March 2004, the director of Central Intelligence, George Tenet, testified before the Senate Armed Services Committee, saying, "Damascus has an active CW development and testing program that relies on foreign suppliers for key controlled chemicals suitable for producing CW."

    The CIA's Iraq Survey Group acknowledged in its September 30, 2004, "Comprehensive Report," "we cannot express a firm view on the possibility that WMD elements were relocated out of Iraq prior to the war. Reports of such actions exist, but we have not yet been able to investigate this possibility thoroughly."

    Mr. Sada is an unusual figure for an Iraqi general as he is a Christian and was not a member of the Baath Party. He now directs the Iraq operations of the Christian humanitarian organization, World Compassion.
    This article is from the archive of The New York Sun before the launch of its new website in 2022. The Sun has neither altered nor updated such articles…

  • thesightless
    Someone will marry me. Hell Yeah!
    • Jun 2004
    • 13567

    #2
    Re: Syria 'safeguarding' Saddams WMD's

    it would be REALLY FUCKED UP if bush was right the whole time.....

    then i would know the world is gonna end.

    seriously, take it as you will, but could you imagine if he really was right????yikes!

    from my POV, this country has become so split on iraq, it would send us into turmoil if this was indeed right.

    but the theory is so simple it is perfectly do-able. why make a scene with military troops transporting them when you have an ally willing to accept them, and the means to get them out of the country, again, when we first went in there, i always thought it was about oil, but tried to keep in mind that we gave them a few months to accomplish this.
    your life is an occasion, rise to it.

    Join My Chant. new mix. april 09. dirty fuck house.
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    Comment

    • toasty
      Sir Toastiness
      • Jun 2004
      • 6585

      #3
      Re: Syria 'safeguarding' Saddams WMD's

      this would indeed be very interesting, but I'm not sure what it would really change. Yes, he would have been right about there being WMDs, but Bush's incompetence so far transcends the Iraq situation, I can't say I'd feel any differently.

      I'm sure that shocks all of you, eh?

      Comment

      • BSully828
        Platinum Poster
        • Jun 2004
        • 1221

        #4
        Re: Syria 'safeguarding' Saddams WMD's

        Heard about this the other day as well. Its guaranteed that there will be those who call bullshit on this guy, but - like both of you have already said - if this is true, then watch out. I mean honestly, is it that hard to believe?

        This former General is also claiming he sat in on meetings between Osama and Saddam as well as having first hand knowledge of Saddam giving various forms of support to Al Qaeda.
        Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not;
        a sense of humor to console him for what he is.

        Comment

        • BSully828
          Platinum Poster
          • Jun 2004
          • 1221

          #5
          Re: Syria 'safeguarding' Saddams WMD's

          Originally posted by toasty
          this would indeed be very interesting, but I'm not sure what it would really change.
          I think the biggest effect would be seen among those who have been on the fence. The two camps (pro and con re: the war) have been well documented, but there is a segment of the world population that has been in the middle, not 100% either way. Should these allegations prove to be true - Bush's approval rating will skyrocket and support for this war will tip dramatically.

          I mean, how many times did we hear "Bush Lied, People Died"? Cindy Sheehan, Nancy Pelosi, Ted Kennedy, Al Franken ect.. ect.. the entire case all these people have presented since 2003 is based on the notion that there were no WMD's, there was no link between AQ and Saddam and that Iraq was not a material threat. Now one of the highest members of Hussein's force comes out and says otherwise - if nothing else it should make you stop and think.
          Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not;
          a sense of humor to console him for what he is.

          Comment

          • daveman
            I love the colors!!!
            • Jul 2005
            • 1221

            #6
            Re: Syria 'safeguarding' Saddams WMD's

            Originally posted by davetlv
            Was Ariel Sharon right when he said in 2002 that Iraq's WMD's were being transferred to Syria. . . according to the no. 2 official in Saddam Hussein's air force, yes!
            who does number 2 work for?
            once upon a time, machines were mice, and men were lions. now that its the opposite, it's twice upon a time

            Comment

            • toasty
              Sir Toastiness
              • Jun 2004
              • 6585

              #7
              Re: Syria 'safeguarding' Saddams WMD's

              Originally posted by BSully828
              I think the biggest effect would be seen among those who have been on the fence. The two camps (pro and con re: the war) have been well documented, but there is a segment of the world population that has been in the middle, not 100% either way. Should these allegations prove to be true - Bush's approval rating will skyrocket and support for this war will tip dramatically.

              I mean, how many times did we hear "Bush Lied, People Died"? Cindy Sheehan, Nancy Pelosi, Ted Kennedy, Al Franken ect.. ect.. the entire case all these people have presented since 2003 is based on the notion that there were no WMD's, there was no link between AQ and Saddam and that Iraq was not a material threat. Now one of the highest members of Hussein's force comes out and says otherwise - if nothing else it should make you stop and think.
              I agree with you, probably 90%. The one question I have is to what extent the public perception would really change if it turns out there were WMDs after all. The absence of WMDs has been the rallying cry for liberals for a while now, but it seems reasonable to me to think that much of the growing discontent amongst moderates surrounding the war has to do as much with the rising death toll and the lack of any real end in sight as the failings in how we got there. Even if Bush was 100% right about why we should have gone there, we haven't exactly been "greeted as liberators" and many people question whether we have a plan in place to get us out of Iraq.

              Would the public forgive these issues if it turns out that the (original) rationale for going to war is correct? I'm not sure that everyone will be as quick to jump back on Bush's bandwagon as it might initially appear.

              Who knows, though. I'm just throwing out food for thought.

              Comment

              • toasty
                Sir Toastiness
                • Jun 2004
                • 6585

                #8
                Re: Syria 'safeguarding' Saddams WMD's

                Originally posted by BSully828
                This former General is also claiming he sat in on meetings between Osama and Saddam as well as having first hand knowledge of Saddam giving various forms of support to Al Qaeda.
                This is the one thing that makes me wonder about the veracity of his claims regarding the WMDs. This runs so counter to everything we know about OBL and Saddam's relationship -- or lack thereof -- and the fact that they were very much not on the same page, even though they share the common trait of hating the US.

                If he had just come out and said that Iraq moved its WMDs to Syria, I would find it more believable than I do with this additional claim as well. With this claim, it just seems too perfect...

                Comment

                • neoee
                  Platinum Poster
                  • Jun 2004
                  • 1266

                  #9
                  Re: Syria 'safeguarding' Saddams WMD's

                  Interestingly enough I saw a special on the history channel about The Bible Code and it said this would come out in 2006. Of course you have to be a believer in the code. Its pretty fascinating with the 9/11 predictions and all. Anyhow you would think they could track the planes used down by their tail numbers and check to verify the story (see if the seats are still removed, or traces of gasses/radiation etc.).
                  "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." -Benjamin Franklin

                  Comment

                  • superdave
                    Platinum Poster
                    • Jun 2004
                    • 1366

                    #10
                    Re: Syria 'safeguarding' Saddams WMD's

                    I'm skeptical about this claim that WMDs have been moved to Syria. We got bad information once already, so it wouldn't surprise me if we're getting bad information again.

                    I speculate how much the liberal American media would actually let this story be reported. This would help the Republicans too much in an election year. This story could be just in time for mid-term elections to help the Republicans. If it's true, then Syria will have to turn over those weapons or be attacked.
                    Never interrupt your enemy when he's making a mistake - Napoleon Bonaparte

                    Comment

                    • BSully828
                      Platinum Poster
                      • Jun 2004
                      • 1221

                      #11
                      Re: Syria 'safeguarding' Saddams WMD's

                      Originally posted by toasty
                      Would the public forgive these issues if it turns out that the (original) rationale for going to war is correct? I'm not sure that everyone will be as quick to jump back on Bush's bandwagon as it might initially appear.
                      I guess it all boils down to where you decide to gather your information from, or (more accurately) who you choose to believe. Reports of growing achievement in Iraq are coming out pretty regularly these days - depending on who you ask. A recent article shed some light on a few such success stories - here's the cliff notes version that apply to our discussion here:
                      1. The Najaf Teaching Hospital, looted and used as a defensive position by the insurgency last year, has reopened, thanks to Coalition efforts, and now serves hundreds of patients every day. Three new electrical substations are currently under construction in Najaf, and new water treatment and sewage systems are also underway---all in the city described as "the center of the insurgency" only a few short months ago.
                      2. In Mosul, key bridges and roads across the Tigris River have been restored; schools, hospitals, police stations and firehouses rebuilt; and the city's water and sewage systems considerably revamped. In addition, the refurbishment of the Mosul Airport is in progress.
                      3. In a mere two-and-a-half years, the U.S. and its allies have helped Iraqis to renovate nearly 3,000 schools, train more than 30,000 teachers, and distribute eight million textbooks. Rebuilt irrigation infrastructure now helps more than 400,000 rural Iraqis, and another three million benefit from improved drinking water.
                      4. Significantly, reconstruction efforts throughout the country have sustained Iraq's economic recovery and normalization. Iraq's nominal GDP almost doubled from $13.6 billion in 2003 to $25.5 billion in 2004. Real growth for 2005 is estimated at 3.7 percent, and another surge of 17 percent is predicted for 2006. At the same time, per capita GDP, having dropped to $518 in 2003, exceeded $1,000 in 2005.
                      5. Sixty-nine percent of businesses, says Zogby International, are "optimistic" about the country's economic future. Despite continued violence and shortfalls in electricity, seven out of ten Iraqis say their lives are going well
                      Full story here

                      That last one is the most telling for me. These are the actual citizens themselves showing confidence in their situation, despite the ongoing violence.

                      Now to be fair - Mark Alexander has been pretty clear in his political leanings. He's one of the forces behind "The Patriot" newsletter/website and on more than one occasion shown his, shall we say, distaste for democrats in general. The majority of the article I've quoted here is an all-out shittaking on the NYT - which for the most part is the same old stuff you've heard from conservatives coast to coast - but its those examples of success that (to me) are important. And these aren't isolated examples by a right-wing nut, these events have been corroborated by other outlets. Just as the multiple reports from soldiers, who tell stories of the warm reception they've been given by locals and leaders as they trek across the country, portray our efforts there in a better light than Cindy Sheehan ever would.

                      But like I said at the start - it all depends where you get your information from. None of what I've pointed out here will you read in the San Francisco Chronical or hear on Air America, just as Fox News will broadcast a live gay marriage with Sean Hannity on play-by-play before they admit that Bush has made a few mistakes. The best course of action for anyone who wants to have a truly fair and balanced picture of current events would be to study it from both sides - from there you should find your place somewhere in the middle.
                      Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not;
                      a sense of humor to console him for what he is.

                      Comment

                      • thesightless
                        Someone will marry me. Hell Yeah!
                        • Jun 2004
                        • 13567

                        #12
                        Re: Syria 'safeguarding' Saddams WMD's

                        the one thing i use the right wing ideas for is to see how truly bad it got under saddam, and the insurgency,simply didnt put his troops in his streets, but suffocated the infrastructure, geography, biological systems, and more.

                        the one thing that really schocked me early on was how in the early 80's after the intial uprising, saddam had his troops go into central iraq and build diversionary dams that rooted out the water from the central plains, which are now desert, but 30 years ago were more similar to a tempid marshland which fed the country through agriculture and more. they lost a source of food, water, and income all because they disagreed with their president. this would be similar to bush going into democratic lead states and burning farms and poisoning the fisheries.

                        anyone who will destroy thier own nation to secure power should be taken down.
                        your life is an occasion, rise to it.

                        Join My Chant. new mix. april 09. dirty fuck house.
                        download that. deep shit listed there

                        my dick is its own superhero.

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                        • thesightless
                          Someone will marry me. Hell Yeah!
                          • Jun 2004
                          • 13567

                          #13
                          Re: Syria 'safeguarding' Saddams WMD's



                          then 25 years later.............
                          your life is an occasion, rise to it.

                          Join My Chant. new mix. april 09. dirty fuck house.
                          download that. deep shit listed there

                          my dick is its own superhero.

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                          • thesightless
                            Someone will marry me. Hell Yeah!
                            • Jun 2004
                            • 13567

                            #14
                            Re: Syria 'safeguarding' Saddams WMD's

                            your life is an occasion, rise to it.

                            Join My Chant. new mix. april 09. dirty fuck house.
                            download that. deep shit listed there

                            my dick is its own superhero.

                            Comment

                            • Balanc3
                              Platinum Poster
                              • Jun 2004
                              • 1278

                              #15
                              Re: Syria 'safeguarding' Saddams WMD's

                              You guys have all touched on some very good points. But my question is this... there were chemical agents found in Iraq - recall my previous post where insurgents attempted to explode a sarin bomb on troops. These were leftovers from the FIRST gulf war that we were told were destroyed. Ok... so you hide them in Syria... and Insurgents get their hands on a few and bring them back into Iraq? Think of all the looting that took place in the beginning of the war - warplanes that were stripped for parts. If Saddam had a secret stash - I'm sure it was picked over before we had a chance to uncover them.
                              JourneyDeep .into the sound

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