ecstasy and loud music

[Localizer]

Re: ecstasy and loud music

^^^ In regards to memory loss, there have been other studies which prove otherwise. As a matter of fact, in the study I'm referring to, the top 3 performers were heavy ecstasy users. I can no longer find the link to that study but here's another one which had similar results:



And in regards to the "detrimental effects" and "long term damage" you were referring to, again more FUD being spread by our govt. in order to "protect the children".

The most comprehensive studies are being done by the Germans, who are finding that abstaining from the drug for a period of 3 months reverses the damage, almost to the original baseline (typically 97-98% though).

I would be more concerned the the heart damage, which has real potential with heavy users. It has much the same effect that Fen-Phen does on heart valves, but quite as potently as Fen-Phen. In addition you won't be taking E like people were with Fen-Phen (on average 3 times a day).

If you want good information, backed by studies I suggest you check out www.thedea.org. Admittedly(sp?), the guy has a bias for the drug, but at the same time he puts out all the information good and bad.

With that said, I would be interested in seeing the studies you are referring to, got any links?

I wish I could receive 98% return to my baseline but with my genetic makeup I don't think that would ever happen .


I haven't said anything regarding memory loss but I guess it's safe to correlate brain deterioration with some sort of memory loss. The problem with most studies, especially the one you listed, is that it's focused on serotonic areas (applicable to issues associated with the released of serotonin) and not on dopamergenic neurotoxicity.


Taken from one study:
not sure if u can access it but here's the link:
http://proquest.umi.com/pqdweb?did=205589631&sid=2&Fmt=4&clientId=17916&RQ T=309&VName=PQD

"These findings suggest that humans who use repeated doses of MDMA over several hours are at high risk for incurring severe brain dopaminergic neural injury (along with significant serotonergic neurotoxicity). This injury, together with the decline in dopaminergic function known to occur with age (15), may put these individuals at increased risk for developing Parkinsonism and other neuropsychiatric diseases involving brain dopamine/serotonin deficiency, either as young adults or later in life."



Subjects:addSubject("Ecstasy")addSubject("Drug use")addSubject("Memory")addSubject("Cognition & reasoning")addSubject("Studies")generateSubjectTer ms() Ecstasy, Drug use, Memory, Cognition & reasoning, StudiesAuthor(s):John E Fisk, Catharine Montgomery, Philip Murphy, Michelle WareingDocument types:FeaturePublication title:British Journal of Psychology. London: Nov 2004. Vol. 95 Part 4. pg. 457, 10 pgsPart4Source type:PeriodicalISSN/ISBN:00071269ProQuest document ID:761494371Text Word Count4588Document URL:http://proquest.umi.com/pqdweb?did=7...=309&VName=PQD
Abstract (Document Summary)Random letter generation and computation span are tasks known to load on executive, prefrontal resources. Previous research suggests that Ecstasy users are impaired on random letter generation. The current study, employing a larger sample (44 current Ecstasy users, and 59 non-Ecstasy users), together with more effective statistical controls for other drug use, failed to replicate previous findings. Ecstasy users were unimpaired on all measures of random generation performance. A significant difference was obtained on the computation span measure, with Ecstasy users scoring significantly lower than non-Ecstasy users. This difference remained statistically significant following control for various indicators of the use of other drugs including cannabis. The results are discussed in terms of the potential effects that Ecstasy might have on different component executive processes. [PUBLICATION ABSTRACT]



Another link since this one is in .pdf. I'll post more when i'm done watching sin city.

http://proquest.umi.com/pqdweb?index=6&did=754591671&SrchMode=1&sid=8&Fmt=6&VInst=PROD&VType=PQD&RQT=309&VName=PQD&TS=1141005227&clientId=17916

Another huge problem that is posed is that the external validity is going down with the german experiments because they seemed very controlled. Most users of mdma don't take pure mdma, but mdma coupled with other drugs, and this is where we have a huge problem because the coupling of those drugs may actually be the issue for deterioration. The combination of MDMA working with other drugs.

[BeachBum]

Re: ecstasy and loud music

What about the monkey smoking the cigar ?

[neoee]

Re: ecstasy and loud music

I wish I could receive 98% return to my baseline but with my genetic makeup I don't think that would ever happen .

Sorry to hear that its taken such a toll on you. I hope things DO return back to baseline for you.

I haven't said anything regarding memory loss but I guess it's safe to correlate brain deterioration with some sort of memory loss.

Actually you did mention memory loss in your earlier statement:

...well as damage to your short-term memory.

Taken from one study:
not sure if u can access it but here's the link:
http://proquest.umi.com/pqdweb?did=205589631&sid=2&Fmt=4&clientId=17916&RQ T=309&VName=PQD

"These findings suggest that humans who use repeated doses of MDMA over several hours are at high risk for incurring severe brain dopaminergic neural injury (along with significant serotonergic neurotoxicity). This injury, together with the decline in dopaminergic function known to occur with age (15), may put these individuals at increased risk for developing Parkinsonism and other neuropsychiatric diseases involving brain dopamine/serotonin deficiency, either as young adults or later in life."

Unfortunately I do not have access to the site so I couldn't see the data. However, this looks like a repeat of the claims that Ricartue et al. were making. Just a reminder, the reason he was forced to retract his study was due the the pressure from other scientists that could not duplicate the results and then his final retraction claiming "the bottles were mislabeled." He was the one that originally made the claim of Parkinsonism, and that was the study in particular that was retracted. More info on that, if your interested:

http://www.maps.org/mdma/retraction/maps_response_100203.html

Subjects:addSubject("Ecstasy")addSubject("Drug use")addSubject("Memory")addSubject("Cognition & reasoning")addSubject("Studies")generateSubjectTer ms() Ecstasy, Drug use, Memory, Cognition & reasoning, StudiesAuthor(s):John E Fisk, Catharine Montgomery, Philip Murphy, Michelle WareingDocument types:FeaturePublication title:British Journal of Psychology. London: Nov 2004. Vol. 95 Part 4. pg. 457, 10 pgsPart4Source type:PeriodicalISSN/ISBN:00071269ProQuest document ID:761494371Text Word Count4588Document URL:http://proquest.umi.com/pqdweb?did=7...=309&VName=PQD
Abstract (Document Summary)Random letter generation and computation span are tasks known to load on executive, prefrontal resources. Previous research suggests that Ecstasy users are impaired on random letter generation. The current study, employing a larger sample (44 current Ecstasy users, and 59 non-Ecstasy users), together with more effective statistical controls for other drug use, failed to replicate previous findings. Ecstasy users were unimpaired on all measures of random generation performance. A significant difference was obtained on the computation span measure, with Ecstasy users scoring significantly lower than non-Ecstasy users. This difference remained statistically significant following control for various indicators of the use of other drugs including cannabis. The results are discussed in terms of the potential effects that Ecstasy might have on different component executive processes. [PUBLICATION ABSTRACT]



Another link since this one is in .pdf. I'll post more when i'm done watching sin city.

http://proquest.umi.com/pqdweb?index=6&did=754591671&SrchMode=1&sid=8&Fmt=6&VInst=PROD&VType=PQD&RQT=309&VName=PQD&TS=1141005227&clientId=17916

Again I don't have access to the site, but based on the excerpt you posted, and if I'm reading it properly it goes against what you mentioned (in bold)

Another huge problem that is posed is that the external validity is going down with the german experiments because they seemed very controlled. Most users of mdma don't take pure mdma, but mdma coupled with other drugs, and this is where we have a huge problem because the coupling of those drugs may actually be the issue for deterioration. The combination of MDMA working with other drugs.

Agreed. This has been a problem for all the studies being done. Since the earlier studies were not government approved they basically had to take people that took the drug on their own, without any controls in place. With the two FDA approved studies that are currently taking place I hope they can come to some better conclusions though I'm doubtful, since they are measuring primarily the theraputic effects of the drug.