Where are the good American leaders?

[sheryar]

Re:: Where are the good American leaders?

i agree completely. but you know what, fuck the rest of the world, we had to make sure we were safe, so i am all for the war, hell i tried to re-enlist with the rangers to go over to iraq, but i cant b/c of my wound.

PS i say we just finish the job and go into iran and north korea. just end the fucking shit all at once,

that is the most ridiculous thing i've heard all day. north korea is a heavily armed nuclear power, and from what the world has seen of america in iraq, *nobody* in their right mind is going to let America fuck around any more. not even the american people themselves, hopefully.

i'd like to see them find wmd in iraq in the first place, then talk about other countries.

oh, and i'd also like to see them rebuild iraq and fix up what the fucked up in afghanistan as well.

[ixai]

Re:: Where are the good American leaders?

that said, maher and moore want him not to run because he (Nader) takes votes away from democrats and actually helps the republicans and bush.

There you go! Sometimes I think he even gets paid, or helped anyhow, to run for office.

Just remember good old Ross Perot's days, when he would take votes away from George H.W. Bush, oh those were the days. He needs to come BACK.

[toasty]

Re:: Where are the good American leaders?

that said, maher and moore want him not to run because he (Nader) takes votes away from democrats and actually helps the republicans and bush.

There you go! Sometimes I think he even gets paid, or helped anyhow, to run for office.

Just remember good old Ross Perot's days, when he would take votes away from George H.W. Bush, oh those were the days. He needs to come BACK.

You know, that is the conventional wisdom (that Nader takes votes from Bush), but the numbers this year don't support that as strongly as you might think. The poll numbers are all over the place. When Nader is added to the mix, both candidates lose roughly the same number of votes in most polls I've seen. In some polls, Kerry loses more ground, as one would think, but Bush actually loses more ground in other polls. Weird.

My feeling is that Nader won't actually play as much of a spoiler role in this year's election. Many voters view this as "the most important election of their lifetime," too important to waste what is essentially a protest vote for Nader.

With that said, I still wrote him asking him to please drop out of the race.

[superdave]

Re:: Where are the good American leaders?

toasty mentioned something that i keep hearing frequently which is that this is the most important election in years or your lifetime. i don't see how this is any more important than others. imo, they are all important.

[toasty]

Re:: Where are the good American leaders?

toasty mentioned something that i keep hearing frequently which is that this is the most important election in years or your lifetime. i don't see how this is any more important than others. imo, they are all important.

I would agree that they are all important, but the perception of a lot of people is that, generally speaking, the identity of the president doesn't have the a huge impact upon the day to day lives of the people in this country. I think the unprecedented threat of terrorism this election cycle gives it a heightened air of importance (although I personally think that we will continue to have to deal with that no matter what, and that whomever is commander-in-chief will do what needs to be done to protect the country -- for example, Bush & Kerry's positions on this are not wildly different) and change that to some extent.

Bush has also done a good job of taking extreme positions over the last 3 years that alienate certain groups. If you're a member of one of those groups, the election probably takes on heightened significance. When I look back at some of the positions Bush has taken in the past, it blows me away to think what we might be in for in the next four years, when reelection is not an issue.

Also, many people believe that the country is on the wrong track, and dangerously so. Our stature in the eyes of the world is at a low point, and Bush hasn't demonstrated any desire or plan to change that. Will we continue to alienate ourselves from the rest of the world?

Lastly, and I think I mentioned this in another post at one time, the war in Iraq has been a complete clusterfuck. It is clear that we went in there with bad intelligence, intelligence that I personally believe was at least subconsciously skewed to support going into Iraq, which we all know Bush wanted to do at some point during his presidency. Although many people would probably agree that the world is a better place without Saddam and that going in there just for the sake of getting him out was probably justified, there is a lingering concern about how we got over there. When is Bush going to get a wild hair up his ass about something that people disagree with?