If you store your valuable music on digital storage media... Extremely useful info!

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  • az0000000
    Getting Somewhere
    • Jan 2006
    • 114

    If you store your valuable music on digital storage media... Extremely useful info!

    Hi everyone. I know many of you guys store your valuable music collection to digital storage media, such as optical CDs and DVDs, so do I
    Thus i thought this article would be extremely useful for many of you. I post this info out of deep respect to electronic music, without which I can?t emagine, my life. Please, have patience to read it, as it is you who should make use of it.
    Regards,

    Although opinions vary on how to preserve data on digital storage media, such as optical CDs and DVDs, Kurt Gerecke, a physicist and storage expert at IBM Deutschland GmbH, takes this view: If you want to avoid having to burn new CDs every few years, use magnetic tapes to store all your pictures, videos and songs for a lifetime.
    "Unlike pressed original CDs, burned CDs have a relatively short life span of between two to five years, depending on the quality of the CD," Gerecke said in an interview this week. "There are a few things you can do to extend the life of a burned CD, like keeping the disc in a cool, dark space, but not a whole lot more."
    The problem is material degradation. Optical discs commonly used for burning, such as CD-R and CD-RW, have a recording surface consisting of a layer of dye that can be modified by heat to store data. The degradation process can result in the data "shifting" on the surface and thus becoming unreadable to the laser beam.
    "Many of the cheap burnable CDs available at discount stores have a life span of around two years," Gerecke said. "Some of the better-quality discs offer a longer life span, of a maximum of five years."
    Distinguishing high-quality burnable CDs from low-quality discs is difficult, he said, because few vendors use life span as a selling point.
    Hard-drive disks also have their limitations, according to Gerecke. The problem with hard drives, he said, is not so much the disk itself as it is the disk bearing, which has a positioning function similar to a ball bearing. "If the hard drive uses an inexpensive disk bearing, that bearing will wear out faster than a more expensive one," he said. His recommendation: a hard-drive disk with 7,200 revolutions per minute.
    To overcome the preservation limitations of burnable CDs, Gerecke suggests using magnetic tapes, which, he claims, can have a life span of 30 to 100 years, depending on their quality. "Even if magnetic tapes are also subject to degradation, they're still the superior storage media," he said.
    But he's quick to point out that no storage medium lasts forever and, consequently, consumers and business alike need to have a plan for migrating to new storage technologies.
    "Companies, in particular, need to be constantly looking at new storage technologies and have an archiving strategy that allows them to automatically migrate to new technologies," he said. "Otherwise, they're going to wind up in a dead end. And for those sitting on terabytes of crucial data, that could be a colossal problem."
    Factory-pressed CDs are totally different from recordable CDs. In a pressed CD, the data is literally "molded into" (actually pressed into) the media and will not disappear unless the CD is physically damaged. Recordable CDs use a dye that changes color or reflectivity when heated. There are different dye types commonly used in recordable CDs--phthalocyanine, azo, and cyanine, in particular--and they do not all have the same life expectancy and stability.
    All of the studies that were have seen except one suggest that properly burned one-time media (-R media, but not -RW media; see below) has an expected life of decades to possibly even centuries.
    The OSTA (Optical Storage Technology Association) suggests that optical recordable media will last 50 to 200 years. This observation is backed by quite a number of studies that I have seen done both by the media makers and others. However, some storage experts suggest numbers more in line with your question, for example the expert in this report suggests a life of only 2 to 5 years.
    The bottom line is that you are not going to get one single answer that everyone agrees on, although I personally am confident that properly recorded CD-R media can last decades if not a century or two. These 3 articles provide a good starting point for understanding some of the variables involved, which include:
    -Dye type
    -Physical construction of the media
    -Storage conditions (temperature, humidity, light exposure, mechanical stress, chemical exposure and air quality)
    -Manufacturing conditions (can vary from batch to batch in otherwise identical media of the same brand)
    Now let?s mention some other things that are relevant and important:
    -The quality of the burner. A borderline defective burner can ?under expose? the media to the laser beam, producing a seemingly good recording (at the time of burning) that will ?fade? over time (failing weeks, months, years or decades sooner than it should have had the laser beam intensity been correct)
    -Recording speed. Fast burns (52X) are probably less stable than somewhat slower burns (say 16x to 32x), but you can burn media too slowly also. There is a very good analogy here to photographic film and exposure levels. The dyes on a given media have a certain range of acceptable ?exposures? and outside of that range, you can either under or over expose the media to the laser beam. However, mechanical jitter and certain other variables (largely a function of the quality of the drive) generally will be unconditionally worse at faster speeds.
    -Your own handling and storage practices. On a CD, the data ?exists? in a dye layer on the label side of the media. This can be scratched from the back (from the label side), which will literally and directly destroy the data. The front side is clear plastic but can also be scratched. While front side damage may make the data less readable or completely unreadable, the data is still intact and undamaged on the label side, and the scratches on the front can normally be removed by polishing the plastic. On recordable DVDs, the data is on a layer ?inside? the media, but the media is a laminate of several layers and can delaminate, destroying the data. Flexing ? even VERY minor flexing ? is particularly bad at causing such damage. And, also, recordable DVDs tend to fail from the outside in, so you can increase your success rate and decrease the incidence of failures by not recording such media beyond 80% to 90% of capacity, leaving the outside edge, where the failure rate is greatest and failure occurs first, blank anyway.
    -Labeling: The glues in adhesive labels, or the solvents in pen-type markers, both applied to the label side (the side containing the data) can SLOWLY penetrate the reflective backing and dye layers and destroy the data. Therefore, for archival media, the safest policy is to not label the CD or DVD itself at all. If you do label it, with either a label or a pen, you are, at best, taking a chance with your data (hint: it is safe to write on the clear inner hub (where there is no data at all) with a suitable pen that won?t rub off).
    -And, finally, I would be remiss if I did not mention one other factor which is really huge: Eraseable ?RW? media is FAR less stable than one-time (?R?) media and should absolutely not be used for any permanent recordings of any kind whatsoever. There is no question that RW media can and does ?fade?. Although I?ve never seen failure of ?R? media that I could attribute with absolute certainty to dye instability, I routinely see ?RW? recordings that are unreadable after periods of months to a year or two when there is really no other explanation for the failure. I see this both on CD-RW and DVD+/-RW media, and I advise people in the strongest possible terms not to use ?RW? media for anything that they want to consider permanent. Since RW media is also both more expensive (a lot more expensive) and slower, from my perspective the decision to never even buy RW media at all is an easy one from my perspective.
  • man_who_wasnt_there
    Gold Gabber
    • Feb 2006
    • 853

    #2
    Re: If you store your valuable music on digital storage media... Extremely useful info!

    burned CDs have a relatively short life span of between two to five years
    Nonsense.
    Steve James 1978–2008

    Comment

    • KinKyJ
      Platinum Poser
      • Jun 2004
      • 13438

      #3
      Re: If you store your valuable music on digital storage media... Extremely useful info!

      ^^^ Nah, they do have a shorter life span, although 2 to 5 yrs is kinda exagerated...

      Comment

      • Huggie Smiles
        Anyone have Styx livesets?
        • Jun 2004
        • 11836

        #4
        Re: If you store your valuable music on digital storage media... Extremely useful info!

        there is also the issue of 'quality of the cd' -mentioned WAY at the beginning;

        if your buying nonamebrand cheap as fuck cd's then u get what u deserve - you'll be lucky if they hit 2 years;

        One of the technology review magazines did a comparison of all the blank cdr media (not rw) and found TDK to be most reliable over the long haul (cant find the link at the moment). Just IMO.
        ....Freak in the morning, Freak in the evening, aint no other Freak like me thats breathing....




        Comment

        • Huggie Smiles
          Anyone have Styx livesets?
          • Jun 2004
          • 11836

          #5
          Re: If you store your valuable music on digital storage media... Extremely useful info!

          here is a page link - that links to multiple sources of info about quality cd-rs and how long they last:

          cybercoyote.org is your first and best source for all of the information you’re looking for. From general topics to more of what you would expect to find here, cybercoyote.org has it all. We hope you find what you are searching for!
          ....Freak in the morning, Freak in the evening, aint no other Freak like me thats breathing....




          Comment

          • Jenks
            I'm kind of a big deal.
            • Jun 2004
            • 10250

            #6
            Re: If you store your valuable music on digital storage media... Extremely useful info!

            tbh, i couldn't give a shit if that cd i burned 5 years ago is still around or not.

            Comment

            • man_who_wasnt_there
              Gold Gabber
              • Feb 2006
              • 853

              #7
              Re: If you store your valuable music on digital storage media... Extremely useful info!

              there is also the issue of 'quality of the cd' -mentioned WAY at the beginning;
              Yes I read that, still think it's bollox if you keep the discs in good condition etc. Never used poor quality discs but like many people I've burnt them for getting on 10 years and I know they'll all playback fine.
              Steve James 1978–2008

              Comment

              • asdf_admin
                i use to be important
                • Jun 2004
                • 12798

                #8
                Re: If you store your valuable music on digital storage media... Extremely useful info!

                haha. crazy nerd.
                dead, yet alive.

                Comment

                • palmer
                  Retired or Simply Important
                  • Jun 2004
                  • 5383

                  #9
                  Re: If you store your valuable music on digital storage media... Extremely useful inf

                  I have cd's that I burned 14 years ago that still work.....
                  todayistomorrow
                  art direction | design | animation

                  Comment

                  • evangelion
                    Platinum Poster
                    • Jun 2004
                    • 1999

                    #10
                    Re: If you store your valuable music on digital storage media... Extremely useful inf

                    Exactly. I saw this somewhere else and my first thought was "bullshit."

                    Comment

                    • anonin
                      Juvenile Delinquent
                      • Oct 2005
                      • 2347

                      #11
                      Re: If you store your valuable music on digital storage media... Extremely useful inf

                      Originally posted by man_who_wasnt_there
                      Nonsense.
                      poppycock

                      Comment

                      • MJDub
                        Are you Kidding me??
                        • Jun 2004
                        • 2765

                        #12
                        Re: If you store your valuable music on digital storage media... Extremely useful inf

                        Originally posted by anonin
                        poppycock


                        "Hey Lois! DUTY!!"
                        http://www.myspace.com/mjdubmusic

                        You can't have manslaughter without laughter.

                        "Son," he said without preamble, "never trust a man who doesn't drink because he's probably a self-righteous sort, a man who thinks he knows right from wrong all the time. Some of them are good men, but in the name of goodness, they cause most of the suffering in the world. They're the judges, the meddlers. And, son, never trust a man who drinks but refuses to get drunk. They're usually afraid of something deep down inside, either that they're a coward or a fool or mean and violent. You can't trust a man who's afraid of himself. But sometimes, son, you can trust a man who occasionally kneels before a toilet. The chances are that he is learning something about humility and his natural human foolishness, about how to survive himself. It's damned hard for a man to take himself too seriously when he's heaving his guts into a dirty toilet bowl."

                        Comment

                        • qwerty2222
                          Platinum Poster
                          • Jun 2004
                          • 1615

                          #13
                          Re: If you store your valuable music on digital storage media... Extremely useful info!

                          i use cds to store my music, i have cds that were burned 10 years ago and still work fine, for me right now, it's the best media storage, had no problems so far and hope wont have any in the future

                          Comment

                          • az0000000
                            Getting Somewhere
                            • Jan 2006
                            • 114

                            #14
                            Re: If you store your valuable music on digital storage media... Extremely useful info!

                            Originally posted by man_who_wasnt_there
                            Nonsense.
                            No, it is not nonsense and it is not to frighten you This info just help you understand that you will have to use your CDs carefully if you want them to serve long time.
                            Cheers,

                            Comment

                            • JoeY2k
                              Addiction started
                              • Aug 2005
                              • 342

                              #15
                              Re: If you store your valuable music on digital storage media... Extremely useful info!

                              have used some good quality dvds 2 years ago and 2 or 3 sets couldn´t be read anymore, note that i haven´t used the disc alot between this time (and therefore no damages on the reading surface).

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