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Re: China is the bigest threat to global market balance
Riiiiiight, finally some real arguments instead of slogans, me likes!
Wrong. I'm sorry to say that perspective was popular with the marxists/communists/... in the 20th century, but it's completely outdated today. Back then the "industrialsts" (yet another outdated word that comes from the same era) did suck the "working class" dry so that they could maintain their "bourgeois lifestyle" (tought I'd throw this one in myself, hehehe). When you take a look at the situation today, you notice that although working conditions aren't always as good as they are in the EU, the picture is more balanced: both employees and employers need eachother and benefit from the relation they have. Consumers need money, companies need people to get things done. The days of massively treating employees like cattle are over.
I know what you're going to say: what about the people in the sweatshops? Well hell, the more the Chinese economy can consolidate and control its growth, the faster working conditions will improve... The low cost of labour isn't the only reason why China booms like it does. Most factory workers move from the (in general poor) provinces to industrial centers with one goal only: work their skinny asses off for three years in order to earn the mondey they need to build a house for their family when they return. That's the only focus the majority of the employees have and it's a guarrantee for high productivity (cutting yet again something off the cost to make a product)
Right. But is that something I should be ashamed of? The Dominican Republic has two large industries: tourism and agriculture. With the prices of sugar being close to rock botom (yet again because governments that hold on to the past disturb the market price by pumping a lot of money into their own farmers), tourism is crucial for the country's developement. If the tourists don't bring in money, there are no available means to invest in infrastructure like roads, sewers, electricity, ... So in a way sipping a cocktail in Punta Cana helps the country to improve the quality of life in general...
Or to bring it closer to home: I've been travelling a lot to Macedonia lately (cuz of my gf) and what do you see there? An unemployment rate of +/- 70% while the labour market crawls with young, highly skilled people. Why is this? Corruption is one reason, the fact that there is no money to invest in new projects is another one (don't forget that Macedonia has been independant for only 10-15yrs now). The aid coming from the US and the EU, substantial as it may be, isn't the "magical solution" that will change things. Tourists spending their money is a source which feeds the local economy directly and stimulates people to empower themselves and to take initiative.
Let's not forget who has been putting small companies here out of business for years now: supermarkets and chains owned by large (mostly German and French) distribution groups like Metro. Most of the rooting out has already been done without the help of the Chinese. But then again, that's a natural evolution. I mean, do you still have a blacksmith where you live? No, because they became obsolety as the world evolved...
And yet again, if Chinese companies can open up markets here, it will benefit the guy who pushes buttons on a machine in Beijing as well...
When my grandparents had my age, a trip to the seaside (roughly 180kms) was a hell of a holiday. Today I take out my VISA and book a ticket to Mauritius if I feel like doing that.Such drastic improvements in the quality of living didn't happen overnight and neither will it happen in China.
Btw, where are you from?
Don't worry, I was just pissing you off a little with this one. My point just was that the solution is a little more complex than buying honest products and honest prices (to tell you the truth, I still buy wine and pisco at Oxfam, love the taste of it)
Yes we could. The only consequence would be that prices would go up again. Let me give ya a little rebound: do you really believe our poor little boy could survive without us? And with surviving I mean also getting opportunities to improve his life without waiting for a C-130 to drop bags of rice on his head...
There's always more than one side to a story...
Riiiiiight, finally some real arguments instead of slogans, me likes!
Originally posted by Skatebuf
Wrong. I'm sorry to say that perspective was popular with the marxists/communists/... in the 20th century, but it's completely outdated today. Back then the "industrialsts" (yet another outdated word that comes from the same era) did suck the "working class" dry so that they could maintain their "bourgeois lifestyle" (tought I'd throw this one in myself, hehehe). When you take a look at the situation today, you notice that although working conditions aren't always as good as they are in the EU, the picture is more balanced: both employees and employers need eachother and benefit from the relation they have. Consumers need money, companies need people to get things done. The days of massively treating employees like cattle are over.
I know what you're going to say: what about the people in the sweatshops? Well hell, the more the Chinese economy can consolidate and control its growth, the faster working conditions will improve... The low cost of labour isn't the only reason why China booms like it does. Most factory workers move from the (in general poor) provinces to industrial centers with one goal only: work their skinny asses off for three years in order to earn the mondey they need to build a house for their family when they return. That's the only focus the majority of the employees have and it's a guarrantee for high productivity (cutting yet again something off the cost to make a product)
Originally posted by Skatebuf
Right. But is that something I should be ashamed of? The Dominican Republic has two large industries: tourism and agriculture. With the prices of sugar being close to rock botom (yet again because governments that hold on to the past disturb the market price by pumping a lot of money into their own farmers), tourism is crucial for the country's developement. If the tourists don't bring in money, there are no available means to invest in infrastructure like roads, sewers, electricity, ... So in a way sipping a cocktail in Punta Cana helps the country to improve the quality of life in general...
Or to bring it closer to home: I've been travelling a lot to Macedonia lately (cuz of my gf) and what do you see there? An unemployment rate of +/- 70% while the labour market crawls with young, highly skilled people. Why is this? Corruption is one reason, the fact that there is no money to invest in new projects is another one (don't forget that Macedonia has been independant for only 10-15yrs now). The aid coming from the US and the EU, substantial as it may be, isn't the "magical solution" that will change things. Tourists spending their money is a source which feeds the local economy directly and stimulates people to empower themselves and to take initiative.
Originally posted by Skatebuf
Let's not forget who has been putting small companies here out of business for years now: supermarkets and chains owned by large (mostly German and French) distribution groups like Metro. Most of the rooting out has already been done without the help of the Chinese. But then again, that's a natural evolution. I mean, do you still have a blacksmith where you live? No, because they became obsolety as the world evolved...
And yet again, if Chinese companies can open up markets here, it will benefit the guy who pushes buttons on a machine in Beijing as well...
Originally posted by Skatebuf
When my grandparents had my age, a trip to the seaside (roughly 180kms) was a hell of a holiday. Today I take out my VISA and book a ticket to Mauritius if I feel like doing that.Such drastic improvements in the quality of living didn't happen overnight and neither will it happen in China.
Btw, where are you from?
Originally posted by Skatebuf
Don't worry, I was just pissing you off a little with this one. My point just was that the solution is a little more complex than buying honest products and honest prices (to tell you the truth, I still buy wine and pisco at Oxfam, love the taste of it)
Originally posted by Skatebuf
Yes we could. The only consequence would be that prices would go up again. Let me give ya a little rebound: do you really believe our poor little boy could survive without us? And with surviving I mean also getting opportunities to improve his life without waiting for a C-130 to drop bags of rice on his head...
There's always more than one side to a story...
(j/k 
)
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