Christian Theologian says WTC towers were demolished, cites evidence

[Jenks]

Re: Christian Theologian says WTC towers were demolished, cites evidence

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Gravity can really get you down sometimes.

Best post yet.

[Jenks]

Re: Christian Theologian says WTC towers were demolished, cites evidence

"

Mind you language please Sightless, you're pushing it.

Politics
"Discharge every humanly possible emotion on your retrospect of the world today"

[daveman]

Re: Christian Theologian says WTC towers were demolished, cites evidence

Mind you language please Sightless, you're pushing it.

@ Daveman & Delirious:

I understand the arguments of both of you, now I have a question: wouldn't it be possible, or maybe even probable, that if a collapse occurs, this would start first at the point where the structure has suffered the most damage? This would in my view mean that it might start in the places where the planes hit the buildings, where the 'entrance wound' was the biggest - this would also mean an asymmetrical collapse, even with the core designed to 'implode' in case of collapse (because i'm pretty sure this was designed in reaction to internal factors such as fire started within the building).

Furthermore, because of this asymmetrical damage to the building, it still strikes me as strange that the floors fell down pretty much level.

Is this such a weird thought?

chain reaction yao. you can't look at the building as simply as the diagrams show. the building survived the crash. it didn't survive the aftermath of the crash. the failures in each building reguardless of how you look at it were similar due to the similarity in the building collapse. they both had to have the same type of structural failure. once any rigid inner structure starts to move beyond the points it was designed to move you have irreversable damage. it can still stand with this damage, but not for long until some other external force will send it down. in this case it was the weight of the couple of top floors that fell first. once the top floors gave way and started to plow through the already stressed rigid structure and it was done for.

[toasty]

Re: Christian Theologian says WTC towers were demolished, cites evidence

^^I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm inclined to give the most weight to the only person in this forum to actually know what the hell he's talking about. For all the theory and opinion the rest of us have, the simple fact is that all of us other than Daveman are pretty much talking out of our asses here...

[daveman]

Re: Christian Theologian says WTC towers were demolished, cites evidence

the simple fact is that all of us other than Daveman are pretty much talking out of our asses here...

- careful, don't feed the ego.

[neoee]

Re: Christian Theologian says WTC towers were demolished, cites evidence

^^I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm inclined to give the most weight to the only person in this forum to actually know what the hell he's talking about. For all the theory and opinion the rest of us have, the simple fact is that all of us other than Daveman are pretty much talking out of our asses here...

Though I don't dispute Daveman's knowledge (and am interested in his insight), some of the counter arguments being made are citing people who are also experts on the matter.

Also I have to say some of the comments being made are inconsistant with the Discovery special I saw on the fall of the buildings, where Leslie Robertson, the structural engineer of the towers, was heavily involved in the making of it. World Trade Center: Anatomy of a Collapse is what it was called if anyone is interested (*cough* bittorrent *cough*).

[Jenks]

Re: Christian Theologian says WTC towers were demolished, cites evidence

Also I have to say some of the comments being made are inconsistant with the Discovery special I saw on the fall of the buildings, where Leslie Robertson, the structural engineer of the towers, was heavily involved in the making of it. World Trade Center: Anatomy of a Collapse is what it was called if anyone is interested (*cough* bittorrent *cough*).

i watched that show!

[toasty]

Re: Christian Theologian says WTC towers were demolished, cites evidence

@neoee

Look, I'm willing to concede that there are some things about the collapse of the building that are peculiar. Maybe it requires a closer look, to make sure that something like that doesn't happen in the future.

If in fact, by virtue of its design and construction, it should not have collapsed and it did, though, I'm much more inclined to believe that it is because of human error somewhere in the design/construction process, not because someone intentionally imploded it. Maybe someone ordered the wrong kind of steel and it didn't match the design. Maybe the welds/connections were bad. Maybe some of the construction workers just flat out did a bad job. Who knows? Any of these seem about a 1000x more likely than the sinister theories some people are floating, though.

As far as I can tell, the argument goes like this:

1. The WTC Towers should not have fallen as they did
2. Bush, Cheney et al have benefitted from 9/11
3. Ergo, Bush, Cheney et al must have been responsible for 9/11.

The path to this conclusion is overly simplistic, and the conclusion is simply not supported by the facts. You will be hard-pressed to find a person on this forum that dislikes Bush and Cheney more than me, but that doesn't mean that I've lost my damn mind.

You know, just because something unexpected happens, it doesn't automatically follow that there's a conspiracy behind it all. Sometimes, shit just happens.

[neoee]

Re: Christian Theologian says WTC towers were demolished, cites evidence

See by itself I could easily believe it was a design factor BUT when you start coupling other facts that come out you things start looking a bit more sinister. For example did you know that the bomb sniffing dogs were removed from the towers on 09.06, just days before the towers fell? How about out the power down that occured on 09.08 & 09.09? The firefighters reporting explotions inside the building? Its not just the incidents as relating to the buildings but the sum of the incidents surrounding 09.11 which cause people to question it.

I don't know if you've ever had to troubleshoot anything. Any person with experience, be it a doctor, computer tech., or mechanic will tell you that you have to consider all the "symptoms" to determine what the cause of the problem is. Its really no different here. Look at everything, could all the anomolies surrounding 09.11 just be coincidence? Maybe. But the list of them is too long to ignore.

[daveman]

Re: Christian Theologian says WTC towers were demolished, cites evidence

i would like to see that special about the collapse again. i remember it being well done.

if you want to see a classic film that has many similarities to 911 i would recommend the towering inferno (1974). its movie plot is about a fire breaking out in a skyscraper and how despite all planning everything can still go wrong. in a lot of ways certain things were forshadowed by a this film.

plus, i love that the architect is a total pimp and gets all the chicks.

[Commissar]

Re: Christian Theologian says WTC towers were demolished, cites evidence

would like to mention something here .. there is a documntery movie named "9/11 - in plane site" .. this movie proves with many evidences that the WTC towers were collapsed by internal explosion, not by aeroplanes, and ofcourse these explosions happened at the same momet the plane hit, also in this movie you will see the moments of planes hitting the towers from unseen before camera angles, and simply it shows you that the aeroplanes were NOT Boeing, there were a kind of american military planes, and the prove is that the actual planes had only two turbines (one on each wing) while the Boeing has four turbines (two on each wing) .. and many more intersting information .. so at the end, it's all a very complicated plan from the american administration just to bring all world's hate against Islam and muslims, and also to get the reason to occupy Iraq and steal its oil and protect Israel, these are all the american administration priorities

[daveman]

Re: Christian Theologian says WTC towers were demolished, cites evidence

would like to mention something here .. there is a documntery movie named "9/11 - in plane site" .. this movie proves with many evidences that the WTC towers were collapsed by internal explosion, not by aeroplanes, and ofcourse these explosions happened at the same momet the plane hit, also in this movie you will see the moments of planes hitting the towers from unseen before camera angles, and simply it shows you that the aeroplanes were NOT Boeing, there were a kind of american military planes, and the prove is that the actual planes had only two turbines (one on each wing) while the Boeing has four turbines (two on each wing) .. and many more intersting information .. so at the end, it's all a very complicated plan from the american administration just to bring all world's hate against Islam and muslims, and also to get the reason to occupy Iraq and steal its oil and protect Israel, these are all the american administration priorities

i think it's more complicated than that.

[neoee]

Re: Christian Theologian says WTC towers were demolished, cites evidence

Commissar, I work for Boeing. I started in this company rigging out the flight control systems on the 737. It was built in the same building as the 757 (directly across the aisle), which was one of the planes used during 09.11. The 757 only has 2 engines. I also believe 767's were used as well, they also only have 2 engines. The only plane we make that has 4 engines (only heritage Boeing, not MD, which we bought) is the 747.

[toasty]

Re: Christian Theologian says WTC towers were demolished, cites evidence

Commissar, I work for Boeing. I started in this company rigging out the flight control systems on the 737. It was built in the same building as the 757 (directly across the aisle), which was one of the planes used during 09.11. The 757 only has 2 engines. I also believe 767's were used as well, they also only have 2 engines. The only plane we make that has 4 engines (only heritage Boeing, not MD, which we bought) is the 747.

Also, Commissar, you're no Jack Kennedy...

[Yao]

Re: Christian Theologian says WTC towers were demolished, cites evidence

chain reaction yao. you can't look at the building as simply as the diagrams show. the building survived the crash. it didn't survive the aftermath of the crash. the failures in each building reguardless of how you look at it were similar due to the similarity in the building collapse. they both had to have the same type of structural failure. once any rigid inner structure starts to move beyond the points it was designed to move you have irreversable damage. it can still stand with this damage, but not for long until some other external force will send it down. in this case it was the weight of the couple of top floors that fell first. once the top floors gave way and started to plow through the already stressed rigid structure and it was done for.

The point is that I wasn't looking at the building as in the diagram, I'm not sure wether you got my question right:

Imagine a clean testing setup from those towers, same height, same number of floors but now only the skeleton around it:

if I damage the structure on one side (could be any side, take the East in this case), and a fire breaks out that does indeed damage the connections within the steel skeleton, wouldn't the structure logicaly give way in the heaviest damaged area, ie: the place of impact (East)?

If so, the floor would not come down flat, but start at that damaged area first whereafter the rest may or may not follow: point is, that it is strange to think that the support under the total surface of the floor would give way at the exact same moment, while the damage is only local (East). Especially when more than one floor suffers damage in that area, IMO it wouldn't be unthinkable that any collapse would start on the Eastern side of the building: much like cutting a tree I guess, though I realize that this comparison isn't completely valid.

But I hope you get my line of thought...not that i know anything of construction, all I have is my logic here to help me...