bolivia socializes thier oil....................

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  • Yao
    DUDERZ get a life!!!
    • Jun 2004
    • 8167

    #16
    Re: bolivia socializes thier oil....................

    Originally posted by thesightless
    if you really wanted to help you would learn to act as an agent, get a group of companies together, fund a public works prodject to get a fucking highway built, or a canal so equiequi over there can get a glass of water that doesnt have a dead lions blood init. then you could have a company go in there, hire people and try to create a financial basis to build on rather than asking the west to ""forgive debts"" that were incurred the last time somone had an idea to fix africa. get a trade skill that they need, not another opinion based on someone else's opinion that failed before. obvioiusly the capitalism model works, look around at the coutries that use it or a modified version of it to fit government. USA, england, japan, china...see a trend there>? lets take a peek at how to tackle this one.... 1. just forcefuly remove the african leadership. 2, take a decade building infrastructure and planting the seeds of business. 3. after 8 years begin funding a public vote where anyone can run for government and let it be unrestricted.

    none of this.....waaah they were raped economically.....cry baby shit. if they wanted to survive they would do it themselves. they are helpless and sadly, only the stronge survive. rule of earth since the ameoba.
    (1) I am not specifically in favour of forgiving debts, although one cannot deny in any way that they are the result of economic and political practices that have been aiming at tying African and South American economies to the Western ones in a subordinate position. This is pretty complex to explain in short, but it boils pretty much down to very unfavourable conditionalities attached to the loans whose effect in the end was a capital flight to the West rather than accumulation in the underdeveloped countries - whereas the dependencia theory voiced by the South American developement school is too extreme in putting the guilt on the Western countries, the modernization theory which was the bedrock of most Western development ideologies has been proven far too linear in it's approach in the first place, not to mention the fact that it does in no way take into account the cultural realm of politics and development: it basically states that we need to incorporate the underdeveloped countries in the modernization path which the West is following now. EG: "What is good for us, is good for you."

    This implies a certain universalism in cultures all around the globe, a universal way of looking at modernization and development. Can you see how ridiculous that is? It is the particular (the Western neo-liberal ideology, which is but one of many) disguising as the universal. The failures in the past 40 years of development have proven this approach a grand failure already.

    (2) My research this summer is EXACTLY about the new ideology which led to the African community not only asking for debt reduction, but also a financial ?plug? of 64 billion dollars a year during the period that they think they need to realize an array of (totally unrealistic) development goals. NEPAD ? The New Partnership for Africa?s Development ? is this new plan, and the African Peer Review Mechanism is what was supposed to serve as a review mechanism for the political and economic development which the subscribers to the programme have undergone. It was supposed to put a check on the governments that wish to enter it, and sanction those that did not qualify. This plan again (like the dependencia theory) places most of the guilt with the West and does in no way engage in some selfreflection for the continent when it comes to the political disorder which is still rampant on the continent and which is the biggest drawback on any possible form of development right now. It is this last issue (corruption, predatory politics and neopatrimonialism) that has drawn my attention, and I intend to serve as an agent which puts these issues in the spotlights so that finally the international community wakes the fuck up and African elites and governments start realizing that real development can never take place until real change takes place. The current way in which Africa politics and economics are exercised are not in any way compatible with the global market which thrives on the neo-liberal economic ideology.

    You see, I?m not a fucking treehugger as some of you might seem to think. I?m not a proponent of the way in which the capitalist system and democracy are exercised right now (they mainly serve as a means to expand Western influence and spread Western values globally), but I am most certainly not blind to the fallacies of the systems that still prevail in the community of underdeveloped countries my friend.

    The way you look at it would only work in an ideal setting, in which every actor in global economics and politics would be equal. But that is not how it is Sean: capitalism isn?t just about maximizing profits, but also about eliminating competition. It is extractive (I mean, how the fuck do you explain that most of the natural resources we use here come from underdeveloped nations??) and extremely eurocentric (include the US with that). The economies of the Asian Tigers and Dragons (including Japan, China, Malaysia, Singapore, Taiwan, South-Korea) who are now among the strongest and fastest growing in the world did NOT grow in a free market environment, but have been shaped under the tight grip of rather authoritarian governments! Economic development has predominantly taken place where there was political stability, which leads to more confidence with investors. This means that our so much hailed democratic system is not a prerequisite for economic development or participation on the free market. What is important then though, is (1) when civil institutions are not strong enough to promote an environment that facilitates economic development, in most cases the state will have to fulfill this role, and (2) what the approach of a state in control is towards development. So I could in fact agree with your proposal to remove some of the regimes by force, lol?.

    Think about it though?.about how practice has already proven the core of the European/US development school at fault. (Western values as a condition for development).

    I still have to get back on the extractive nature of Western companies? investment in developing areas though, but this should do for now
    Blowkick visual & graphic design - No Civilization. Now With Broadband.

    There are but three true sports -- bullfighting, mountain climbing, and motor-racing. The rest are merely games. -Hemingway

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    • thesightless
      Someone will marry me. Hell Yeah!
      • Jun 2004
      • 13567

      #17
      Re: bolivia socializes thier oil....................

      seriously, how many times do you try to fix your VCR before you throw it away and get a better, newer, DVD player. africa is like the old car your dad had that kept breaking down no matter how much money you pumped into it. cept, the car at least offered you the ability to drive around, i mean comon, africa's offering comes down to diamonds, which are already owned by an african company and pictures of people starving since they dont know how to dig a ditch to bring water 90 feet away from a tributary.
      your life is an occasion, rise to it.

      Join My Chant. new mix. april 09. dirty fuck house.
      download that. deep shit listed there

      my dick is its own superhero.

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      • Yao
        DUDERZ get a life!!!
        • Jun 2004
        • 8167

        #18
        Re: bolivia socializes thier oil....................

        Originally posted by KinKyJ
        Why do we want to get Africa on the same level as we are anyway? Another continent sucking our oil reserves dry? Fucking up the Kyoto norm even more? Damnit, it's already bad enough that the Chinese are stealing employment from us as it is.

        And apart from that, where are we going to sell our obsolete weapons and dump our chemical waste when Africa gets civilised?

        God, it's been decades since we've brought civilisation and christianity to the bush, we've taught them how to dig up raw materials and plant banana's, we've built roads, ports airstrips to export it all to civilisation. Then the fuckers thaught they could do better and demanded independence. We gave it to them and what do they have to show for 50 years later? Nada, nothing, niente.

        Columbus and the Conquistadores burned, looted, raped and killed throughout the Americas. Now do you hear the Latino's bitchin'? No, they got their shit together and started planting poppys and coca.

        It's all Darwin to me. Like Sean said: survival of the fittest.
        The impact of colonial infrastructure and investment has already been proven close to ZERO Kinky, in fact, the growth numbers at the end of the first decade of independence were much higher than they were at the time of independence (end of colonial era). For who do you think they built hospitals and airstrips? Not for the locals in any case: any investment in infrastructure or any social service has been aimed at the community of white settlers and expats - the technology to maintain this has, as a result, not been transferred to the local population and needed to be imported again. Which was expensive, and you should be able to fill the rest in by now.

        Goddamn, the level of ignorance on the mechanisms behind the current situation astonishes the fuck out of me man, you've both been raised with an almost incomprehensibly simplistic view of world economics and politics.

        I know you'll be pissed at me, and it's not like I dislike you guys, but don't put it all down as if the world is a simple as a Lego town....
        Blowkick visual & graphic design - No Civilization. Now With Broadband.

        There are but three true sports -- bullfighting, mountain climbing, and motor-racing. The rest are merely games. -Hemingway

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        • Yao
          DUDERZ get a life!!!
          • Jun 2004
          • 8167

          #19
          Re: bolivia socializes thier oil....................

          Originally posted by thesightless
          seriously, how many times do you try to fix your VCR before you throw it away and get a better, newer, DVD player. africa is like the old car your dad had that kept breaking down no matter how much money you pumped into it. cept, the car at least offered you the ability to drive around, i mean comon, africa's offering comes down to diamonds, which are already owned by an african company and pictures of people starving since they dont know how to dig a ditch to bring water 90 feet away from a tributary.
          k, after this reply i'm done discussing this. You just lost, and clearly haven't read what have written.
          Blowkick visual & graphic design - No Civilization. Now With Broadband.

          There are but three true sports -- bullfighting, mountain climbing, and motor-racing. The rest are merely games. -Hemingway

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          • thesightless
            Someone will marry me. Hell Yeah!
            • Jun 2004
            • 13567

            #20
            Re: bolivia socializes thier oil....................

            no i didnt you posted as i was typing. btw what are you lincoln steffins? (didnt think i knew about social and economic policy did ya?i just dont beleive in it and disagree with most of it)
            your life is an occasion, rise to it.

            Join My Chant. new mix. april 09. dirty fuck house.
            download that. deep shit listed there

            my dick is its own superhero.

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            • Yao
              DUDERZ get a life!!!
              • Jun 2004
              • 8167

              #21
              Re: bolivia socializes thier oil....................

              lol, so i was too fast with my reply and who the f--k is Lincoln Steffins? Hehehe...you're entitled to your own opinion, as long as you don't oversimplify reality. That just kills any decent analysis of the complex problems we're dealing with here...
              Blowkick visual & graphic design - No Civilization. Now With Broadband.

              There are but three true sports -- bullfighting, mountain climbing, and motor-racing. The rest are merely games. -Hemingway

              Comment

              • thesightless
                Someone will marry me. Hell Yeah!
                • Jun 2004
                • 13567

                #22
                Re: bolivia socializes thier oil....................

                Alain de Benoist was right, people who think like this should be shipped to new zealand to operate their little shangrila
                your life is an occasion, rise to it.

                Join My Chant. new mix. april 09. dirty fuck house.
                download that. deep shit listed there

                my dick is its own superhero.

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                • thesightless
                  Someone will marry me. Hell Yeah!
                  • Jun 2004
                  • 13567

                  #23
                  Re: bolivia socializes thier oil....................

                  Originally posted by Yao
                  lol, so i was too fast with my reply and who the f--k is Lincoln Steffins? Hehehe...you're entitled to your own opinion, as long as you don't oversimplify reality. That just kills any decent analysis of the complex problems we're dealing with here...
                  ]

                  reality is oversimplified you CANNOT cater to every little whino movement or you would have to abandon the concept of cost, wealth, power, and structure and have every single human being on the planet do one specific job in one geographical area, paying each human individually and equally from garbage men to oil exec's and never allow anyone to accumulate money, just operate on a trade barter system.
                  your life is an occasion, rise to it.

                  Join My Chant. new mix. april 09. dirty fuck house.
                  download that. deep shit listed there

                  my dick is its own superhero.

                  Comment

                  • Yao
                    DUDERZ get a life!!!
                    • Jun 2004
                    • 8167

                    #24
                    Re: bolivia socializes thier oil....................

                    There is always the balance to be struck between inclusion and exclusion of factors, but it seems to me that if a certain theory in practice does not yield the desired results, you've missed a few essential factors which obviously are among the key ones to it's succeeding.

                    Doesn't sound too illogical, does it now?
                    Blowkick visual & graphic design - No Civilization. Now With Broadband.

                    There are but three true sports -- bullfighting, mountain climbing, and motor-racing. The rest are merely games. -Hemingway

                    Comment

                    • thesightless
                      Someone will marry me. Hell Yeah!
                      • Jun 2004
                      • 13567

                      #25
                      Re: bolivia socializes thier oil....................

                      i have to run for awhile, be back in a bit.

                      sound good marxie?
                      your life is an occasion, rise to it.

                      Join My Chant. new mix. april 09. dirty fuck house.
                      download that. deep shit listed there

                      my dick is its own superhero.

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                      • Yao
                        DUDERZ get a life!!!
                        • Jun 2004
                        • 8167

                        #26
                        Re: bolivia socializes thier oil....................

                        Sure Rostow....
                        Blowkick visual & graphic design - No Civilization. Now With Broadband.

                        There are but three true sports -- bullfighting, mountain climbing, and motor-racing. The rest are merely games. -Hemingway

                        Comment

                        • thesightless
                          Someone will marry me. Hell Yeah!
                          • Jun 2004
                          • 13567

                          #27
                          Re: bolivia socializes thier oil....................

                          im doing this from a remote app.. hope it works


                          look hippie. they cant even feed themselves...... yeah keep pumping money into them...
                          BBC, News, BBC News, news online, world, uk, international, foreign, british, online, service


                          there will be a cure for 16 bullet wounds to the brain before africa is even remotly looking at being fixed.
                          your life is an occasion, rise to it.

                          Join My Chant. new mix. april 09. dirty fuck house.
                          download that. deep shit listed there

                          my dick is its own superhero.

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                          • Yao
                            DUDERZ get a life!!!
                            • Jun 2004
                            • 8167

                            #28
                            Re: bolivia socializes thier oil....................

                            I am against structural food aid - it will kill people but it'll also be an incentive for change. The problem is not that they cannot feed themselves by the way: food is there, but the governments rather sell it on the global market for hard cash than stash it and use it to feed their own population. Isn't the liberal market grand? Money goes over lives, litterally. I doubt that there is no food in the first place, it's just that the free food the UN gives is much cheaper, and this allows the govt to sell their rice on the global market.

                            Africa is even more capitalist than America in some respects dude....to a sickening degree. Other than that, one news article does not go against the array of studies I have to back my stories up...
                            Blowkick visual & graphic design - No Civilization. Now With Broadband.

                            There are but three true sports -- bullfighting, mountain climbing, and motor-racing. The rest are merely games. -Hemingway

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                            • thesightless
                              Someone will marry me. Hell Yeah!
                              • Jun 2004
                              • 13567

                              #29
                              Re: bolivia socializes thier oil....................

                              i just planted a tree for you.
                              your life is an occasion, rise to it.

                              Join My Chant. new mix. april 09. dirty fuck house.
                              download that. deep shit listed there

                              my dick is its own superhero.

                              Comment

                              • Yao
                                DUDERZ get a life!!!
                                • Jun 2004
                                • 8167

                                #30
                                Re: bolivia socializes thier oil....................

                                ^^right...implying tree-hugger??

                                Again?

                                Dirty neo-con imperialist
                                Blowkick visual & graphic design - No Civilization. Now With Broadband.

                                There are but three true sports -- bullfighting, mountain climbing, and motor-racing. The rest are merely games. -Hemingway

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