NSA Phone Call Database (NSA DO NOT CALL LIST)

[djrichwoods]

Re: NSA Phone Call Database

Rich woods is my personal diety.... I'm starting a stalker club.... that way if there is a demonstration or a march we can join in really quick-like.... cuz we'd already be in the bushes clipping letters out of magazines and listening to his mixes on our ipods...

[thesightless]

Re: NSA Phone Call Database

thats a pretty fucking stupid thing to say huh? like i said, what freedoms dont we have that someone else's country does outside of legalized drugs?>

however, i dont love the idea of listening in, but you whino's are taking it too far.

[djrichwoods]

Re: NSA Phone Call Database

thats a pretty fucking stupid thing to say huh? like i said, what freedoms dont we have that someone else's country does outside of legalized drugs?>

however, i dont love the idea of listening in, but you whino's are taking it too far.

Police State might be a bit much at this point...

But there have been some recent events that are extremely troubling...

First you have the statement by Gonzales that members of the press can be prosecuted and jailed for printing what the Government considers classified material.

Then there are at least 2 major jury trials that had to do with the US Government's rendition program and Guatanimo have been dismissed due to the Government claiming "State Secrets" regarding the information that might be sensitive in nature.

Add to that the witch hunt in the CIA to persecute "whistle blowers" despite the fact that under current law whistle blowers are afforded protections under the law; the recent raid of a Congress members office on Capital Hill that has been denounced by Congressional leaders of both parties as a major assault on the separation of powers and as a brazen example of abuse by the executive & judicial branches.

We are headed in the wrong direction... you might feel that the ends (whatever they may be) justifies the means but I don't agree and I think that this administration has gone far enough with their enroachments on the civil rights of US citizens and on the separation of powers that have been the foundation on which this government has rested since it's inception.

[thesightless]

Re: NSA Phone Call Database

[QUOTE][First you have the statement by Gonzales that members of the press can be prosecuted and jailed for printing what the Government considers classified material.
/QUOTE]

i am in agreement with them here. it may not be a big thing yet, but eventually it can fuck something up big time. look at sr bush's war. saddam was watching CNN reports to figure out what we were doing.

frankly, and harshly, the guys in guantamo were enemy fighters trying to kill our troops and if they were still in afghan and iraq then they would be part of a bigger problem. they are lucky we didnt just shoot them.

but i agree some of the ""means"" are a bit too much, but seriously comon. do you really think they are listening to you? they are going after the middle eastern ppl through a neccessary racial profilling program. just imagine if clinton had enacted something like this and the governmental agencies were allowed to share data before 9/11 and they could have grabbed atta in the airport. they knew he was a target, and eventually found out he was training here in the US. it was all there but gov't ineptitude allowed it to happen.

like i said the answer to this countries problems dont lie with the republicans or democrats, but with the third option, reality based ppl who are honest when they need to be and secretive when they need to be.

[djrichwoods]

Re: NSA Phone Call Database

No this is in violation of the First Amendment guaranteeing freedom of the Press.

If the Press cannot adequately keep a check on the Administration regarding their blatant law breaking then we are truly heading towards a Fascist state.

Read this:

http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/05/imprisoning-journalists.html

You might not agree with Glenn Greenwald but you can't argue with his credentials and I think that he is one of the most lucid voices today regarding the Constitution and what is going on today with this Administration's increasingly dismissive view of this important document.

[quote=thesightless]

[First you have the statement by Gonzales that members of the press can be prosecuted and jailed for printing what the Government considers classified material.
/QUOTE]

i am in agreement with them here. it may not be a big thing yet, but eventually it can fuck something up big time. look at sr bush's war. saddam was watching CNN reports to figure out what we were doing.

frankly, and harshly, the guys in guantamo were enemy fighters trying to kill our troops and if they were still in afghan and iraq then they would be part of a bigger problem. they are lucky we didnt just shoot them.

but i agree some of the ""means"" are a bit too much, but seriously comon. do you really think they are listening to you? they are going after the middle eastern ppl through a neccessary racial profilling program. just imagine if clinton had enacted something like this and the governmental agencies were allowed to share data before 9/11 and they could have grabbed atta in the airport. they knew he was a target, and eventually found out he was training here in the US. it was all there but gov't ineptitude allowed it to happen.

like i said the answer to this countries problems dont lie with the republicans or democrats, but with the third option, reality based ppl who are honest when they need to be and secretive when they need to be.

[thesightless]

Re: NSA Phone Call Database

then the moron should just do what his predessor did, and change the law now that he owns the house.

but seriously, if you are vehemently opposed to this, then what do you reccomend the intelligence services do to enure, your, mine and everyones safety in order to prevent another mass homicide (please do not infer that i am satirical, mean, or uber right) i just want an honest answer to a really tough problem that just might take a really tough answer to stop it.

and in regards to press freedom, they can have it, but things that are openly declared secret intelligence should not be viewed. it can cost lives and tons of money at the expense of a reporters ego. imagine if that poor lady who was outed was still in the embassy she was stationed at and happened to be out on the street. all it takes is for one person to see the report and grab her. then the intellignce is no longer valueable and she is at risk as well as any person who falls into her intlelignce.

[djrichwoods]

Re: NSA Phone Call Database

You sound like you're sort of confused regarding exactly what has happened and why...

First off, the Valerie Plame incident is different from the NSA Wiretap program in that there are specific laws on the books that make the outing of a covert agent a federal crime and it still remains to be seen as to whether Fitzgerald will indict someone on those charges specifically. The NSA Wiretap program is in violation of FISA and therefore those that brought it to the attention of the press were legitimate whistleblowers and the Press has a responsibility to make sure that the American Public is aware of what its Government is doing in their name. Did you even read that link I put in my post? You sound as if you didn't.

Regarding the intelligence services, they have incredible flexibility under FISA to do what it is they are looking to do domestically... and that is the crux here... the Administration is doing what it is doing without judicial oversight. I'm not sure why you are trying to frame this in a black and white issue when it's not... those who are arguing that this is an abuse of power are not advocating that the Government NOT conduct intelligence gathering in order to prevent another terrorist attact... they ARE advocating that the Administration do it within the confines of the law (and, no, I don't feel that Gonzales is correct in saying that the President is within his rights to do this under Article 2 of the Constitution) and subject anything and everything that they do to review by both Congress and the Judiciary.

And as far as preventing another mass homicide perhaps we can start by actually going after those responsible instead of this inept and horrendous war of choice in Iraq that was waged on the basis of questionable intelligence and outright fabrication of evidence in order to make their claim. How about that? Now we've got Iran making noise SPECIFICALLY because they know they can because the US does not have the manpower to stop them. They don't.

I'm not sure how it is that anyone can justify a Government that has declared that NO ONE can review what they are doing due to the classified status of the information. The FCC has said that they cannot review the NSA Wiretap program and the major telecoms as it involves classified material... Congressional oversight cannot be done because it involves classified material... lawsuits challenging these programs can't proceed because the President says the information is classified so therefore the judge has to dismiss the case... So what you have is an Administration acting alone and not allowing the other branches to oversee what it is doing.

THIS MY FRIEND IS THE MAKING OF AN IMPERIAL PRESIDENCY.

And that is the real problem here. It's called Fascism and we're heading towards it if something is not done and soon.

then the moron should just do what his predessor did, and change the law now that he owns the house.

but seriously, if you are vehemently opposed to this, then what do you reccomend the intelligence services do to enure, your, mine and everyones safety in order to prevent another mass homicide (please do not infer that i am satirical, mean, or uber right) i just want an honest answer to a really tough problem that just might take a really tough answer to stop it.

and in regards to press freedom, they can have it, but things that are openly declared secret intelligence should not be viewed. it can cost lives and tons of money at the expense of a reporters ego. imagine if that poor lady who was outed was still in the embassy she was stationed at and happened to be out on the street. all it takes is for one person to see the report and grab her. then the intellignce is no longer valueable and she is at risk as well as any person who falls into her intlelignce.

[thesightless]

Re: NSA Phone Call Database

3 years and counting my friend. just praying hillary. kerry, and gore dont win. then shit will go downhill quicker than bush could ever pull off. like i say, the third option is there, its our choice to get it in.

[neoee]

Re: NSA Phone Call Database

but seriously, if you are vehemently opposed to this, then what do you reccomend the intelligence services do to enure, your, mine and everyones safety in order to prevent another mass homicide (please do not infer that i am satirical, mean, or uber right) i just want an honest answer to a really tough problem that just might take a really tough answer to stop it.

You want to save lives? Consider this:

Statistics from 2002:
* Heart Disease: 696,947
* Cancer: 557,271
* Stroke: 162,672
* Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 124,816
* Accidents (unintentional injuries): 106,742
* Diabetes: 73,249
* Influenza/pneumonia: 65,681
* Alzheimer's disease: 58,866
* Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 40,974
* Septicemia: 33,865
* Suicide: 30,622
* Murder: 16,110

More people are going to die in car accidents in the US this year than from the boogeyman terrorists. If you want to save lives let's ban cars! How about obesity? Why not ban all the McDonalds and Burger Kings etc? At least doing that would have a higher yeild than our war on terrorism. FFS, you have a better chance of being hit by lightning than death via terrorism. We have spent TRILLIONS on this "war", when we could have saved more lives with flu shots (see above).

How many liberties are we willing to sacrifice to be safe? And though we have already been stripped of many how much safer are we?

Keep in mind that per the 9/11 commission report Al-queda was successful in carrying out their attacks because "...electronic communications were regarded as insecure". So what makes you believe that today they are going to start using them? And how much "safer" have we become due to this government eavesdropping?

Sacrificing liberty for the sake of liberty is idiocy.

The unrest against the government's tyranny is reaching a critical point.

Expect another 'terrorist act' real soon to distract us from the issue of our eroding civil rights.

[runningman]

Re: NSA Phone Call Database

neoee what do you do for a living??

[neoee]

Re: NSA Phone Call Database

^^^^ IT for an airplane, missle, spacecraft, satellite, rocket, & defense systems company who in the past also made furniture (and some other stuff that I'm forgetting).

[runningman]

Re: NSA Phone Call Database

wow your moving on up when you go from furniture to Missile Defense..

[toasty]

Re: NSA Phone Call Database

Sacrificing liberty for the sake of liberty is idiocy.

[Dzone]

Re: NSA Phone Call Database

werd, all they are doing is making sure akbar is not calling mohammed in morrocco to ask when they should strike.

After reading this please define the word Racist ?


Signed
Mohamed Gaafar

[thesightless]

Re: NSA Phone Call Database

dude, dont take thing like that as racist. just weird choice of wording on reality. think about what they are trying to do and who thier choice target is. doesnt make it right, but it also doesnt make is false. they arent grabbinthe line of a guy named olav who is calling his brother in moscow.