dumbass democrats. (this guy at least.)

[thesightless]

the same guy who was opposed to the phone taps and interent traces like they were the plague.

Senator Charles Schumer of New York said this was one instance "where intelligence was on top of its game and discovered the plot when it was just in the talking phase".

he fucking wanted to stop just this only a month ago......

i know the republican party in US is essentially a limping horse, but fuck, the democrats cant follow one thought for more than a few weeks. the kerry withdrawal plan that they trashed, hillary's lobbying for fox news, more more more. they cant get out of thier own way.

from BBC- the article on the plots to bomb the holland tunnel. im not going back to find the url.

[KinKyJ]

Re: dumbass democrats. (this guy at least.)

what do you want? you guys don't even have a real democracy

[thesightless]

Re: dumbass democrats. (this guy at least.)

well no, we do for the most part. i personally blame the media for only covering the two parties. there were a few politicians who ran last time that would have been good, but htey think in the real world and have stepped on toes within thier party. a guy like kuckinich is the best example. when john kerry was harping on about american jobs, kuch was the one telling us that kerry was on of the senators who proposed NAFTA, china trading status and the EU agreements on technology. the 3 leading causes of 3 million jobs going to mexico, china, and asia. ill go on in a few, but i have ameeting rigth now. and ill explain without being inflamatory.

[beanzncheez]

Re: dumbass democrats. (this guy at least.)

what do you want? you guys don't even have a real democracy

That is one retarded statement. Thank you Belgium.

[Miroslav]

Re: dumbass democrats. (this guy at least.)

As political parties become institutionalized, they become an "end" rather than a "means to an end" as they are ideally intended to be. Thus, the aim of the political party primarily becomes its own survival and success - through the guise of still being a true vehicle of reform, voice for the people, etc. In a system where significant resources are necessary to influence change and few alternatives exist, it is in the political party's interest to differentiate itself wherever possible with its competitors - just like the free marketplace. If one party says A, the other must say B...if one says Yes, the other invariably says No. The irony is that when you get down to it, the political parties may not be all that different from one another. Largely moderate views that won't piss too many people off, preserve players with significant wealth and power, and maintain the status quo - ultimately in their favor, with the long term aim of increasing the political party's viability and longevity.

This is why political parties have often been called a necessary evil, and why I am inherently critical of Democrats and Republicans - especially any time they make any sound bite to the media.

"Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man." --Thomas Jefferson

Alas that there can't really be a better alternative.

[Jenks]

Re: dumbass democrats. (this guy at least.)

That is one retarded statement.

consider the source.

[thesightless]

Re: dumbass democrats. (this guy at least.)

umm. the biggest problem outside of the media is the people. millions of just completely uneducated people vote with the generalities. minorites tend to vote democrat because, frankly, they have a disturbingly higher level of reliance on free bees. they, again, in general, are less educated, and also pay less attention. dont worry, im not singleing out them. white people, again, in general, tend to be more conservative, educated, and wealthy, with less reliance on the government. so they instantly hear a republican talk conservative on one topic and vote that way. like i said to my cousin, who is a union electrician and during the second bush campaign was talking out of his ass on policy. he was going on about labor because the democrats rally call is american jobs, until i showed him statistics on US labor and its major downfall. he still goes democrat because they empower unions, but he realizes that they are the reason GM, Daimler chrysler, etc have moved out. all within 5 years of NAFTA.

also, no one holds themsleves or thier party accountable for things. they will harp on and on about the future, but never want to look at the impact of existing and past policy.

i seriously want to get a campaign for every US citizen who votes to vote independent and just clean house and get a younger, fresh, group of representatives in. we have yet another kenndey running. and 7 term senators. not good. they become entrenched, form cliques and stomp out anyone with an independent thought.

[mylexicon]

Re: dumbass democrats. (this guy at least.)

Yeah the complications with transfer payments are the world's worst catch-22. Using the treasury to gift people things is the pandora's box that destroys democracies (don't believe me? it's actually a centuries old belief derived from emperical data. it is largely academically accepted). But if you don't open the pandora's box and give to the poor you are just plain exploiting them. The only alternative is to completely privatize all transfer payments (charity). Unfortunately, no society has ever been able to achieve this in the long run.

The problem it seems is that our representatives serve their constituents. Every group of constiuents in the United States desires more. Consequently, our representatives spend money we don't have to give us a standard of living we cannot afford.

We really need a broad sweeping reform party who can restrict unecessary government activity in a slightly more responsible way than the libertarian party.

God bless the libbys, they're just a bit too revolutionary to be effective without massive destabilization.

[KinKyJ]

Re: dumbass democrats. (this guy at least.)

That is one retarded statement. Thank you Belgium.

you should stop taking me seriously

[beanzncheez]

Re: dumbass democrats. (this guy at least.)

^ ^ No one has taken Belgium seriously since 1831.

[KinKyJ]

Re: dumbass democrats. (this guy at least.)

It isn't even a real country, what do you want?

Btw, since 1830 to be precise

[Xessex]

Re: dumbass democrats. (this guy at least.)

Thesightless:

In Holland its exactly the same and i think pretty much anywhere on the world. People are in general too retarded with voting. In Holland we nowadays have a government that fucks up all over again...and really costs the taxpayers a shitload of money. So people are angry on the government.

I would think that if you are satisfied by the ruling government you vote for one of the leading parties then, if not vote for something completely else. And in Holland there is at least some variety. So there more to choose than out of two 'evils' like in the US.

But somehow people dont get that cause they all buy the shit. For instance if you have money you should vote the VVD, the rightwingers to sorta say. In general they are for less strict rules on coorperations etc and for a tax reduction on the interest of mortgages. But if you look what kind of cutt backs they have made the past few years being in the government i wonder if voting for them saves you money as a more wealthy bloke. Yet they will always draw alot of those 'money'-voters even though the reason people are now losing money in their pocket is actualy also their fault.

So thats for the rightwing conservative moneyhaving voters. They will mostly stick to their VVD party. Onto the middel parties, the left side and the right sid eof the middle. They suck up usually the most voters in Holland. It even seems like if the one doesnt seem satisfying anymore they vote the next time for the other. The difference may have been big in the past because the PvdA was a real workersparty and the CDA a christian more conservative party. But the difference nowadays have become IN FACT very fractional although especially the PvdA as opposition party seems still to point out much at the older differences.

So what you get is this. Now we have the CDA, which because of so much old people having still the old voting habits draws all the 50+ religious voting people to their party. And some not specifically well-payed workers vote always for the PvdA. Means they always have at worst a voting core that ensures them to become at least the 4th largest party in Holland. The rest of their voters are floaters between either one of the two mostly. Which in fact doesnt always make that much of a difference in the end.

And what those people dont see is that now...while in the polls for the elections next year the opposition party of the PvdA is the largest one and the CDA loses bigtime that the PvdA is already making friends with the CDA to form the next coalition. Even though the polls show a majority for three left wing parties...which the PvdA was much in the past and where they still get most of their voters from...
And there is where the polictical situation indeed seems institutionalized in Holland as well. The PvdA is prolly not willing to jeopardize their reputation with going into the sea with two unexperienced left wing parties..which some people think would become a disaster. So in fact they go for the safe old 'friends' the CDA with whom they have played ball many times. And this outplays a real democracy.

In my opinion for the next elections its very stupid to vote CDA and VVD if you are unsatisfied and not very wise to vote PvdA as well. But no people fear voting too much leftwing...cause oh my dear if they become in charge they turn it into a disaster, consuming too much tax money and making the sate be a bit communistic. And on the other hand voting a bit more rightwing than the VVD is not considered to be acceptable either although lots of people are dissatisfied by immigrants in our country. Too right is always nazilike... i must admit its a thin line, but there's a difference between addressing problems and being a nazi. Look at Pim Fortuyn, he was even mild with some of the things other people from parties like the VVD and CDA have said about the problems after his dead.

but somehow people stick to too safe voting... And it doesnt change a goddamned thing in the country on the long run if we keep allowing governments with only CDA, PvdA and VVD. Why wouldnt we allow other parties a chance either for 4 years. Maybe they turn out to be quite right...if not 4 years later you can always vote something completely else. But this doesnt get through the heads of people. They dont see they are supporting a system which creates a new elite and lots of corruption. Debates that are no longer about the issues but about keeping friends (PvdA supporting sending additional troops into Afghanistan, which at first they were against---keeping the CDA a friend)

Or think of the law for a mayor being chosen by the population of a city. This was a law designed by small party. They wanted to join the coaltion to create just a majority only if this law would go through. CDA and VVD promised and the law got through the parliament (Second Chamber). But in Holland the Senate (First Chamber) has to approve it as well. And this time it was shot off, making the role of that small party utter ridiculous (they were being used) but most of all it kept a system going on in which the parties decide pretty much who they gonna install as a mayor somewhere. Being mayor is a sort of donated job for proven services in the past....Now hows that for corruption. Pretty much most mayors havent spend a day in the city they are going to lead before they were chose to become mayor there. So they have no actual band with the city....

Its just dumb ass institutionalized shit and about 80% of the people is too dumb to vote with consideration.

[thesightless]

Re: dumbass democrats. (this guy at least.)

please ur lucky.

i said if before and ill say it again.
gw2 or john kerry. pick ur poison. cuz you are getting fucked in the end anyway.

[beanzncheez]

Re: dumbass democrats. (this guy at least.)

It isn't even a real country, what do you want?

Btw, since 1830 to be precise

Once again, you failed to understand the obvious. It's a wonder that you don't have a girlfriend.