Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

[sono]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

davetlv talking out of his ass again. He quotes every line to make a mockerey while disproving nothing. I don't have to list the UN resolutions imposed against Israel, i don't have to list the war crimes and massacres committed. They are available on the web for you to see from 'moderate' websites not from your uncle rabbi bookshop.

Israel never seems to learn. But their governments have never really shown a true insight into how it can live in peace with its neighbours. Initially created as a colonial outpost, as a result of a secular ideology called Zionism, it has never been consistent with the principles of Judaism. Today it acts as a regional bully. When Hamas or Hizbullah capture/kidnap Israeli soldiers, Ohlmert's regime's response is that of the school bully who lashes out at the entire class for the misdemeanours of one or two, in the process setting the whole school on fire. Does it really think it is going to get it's soldiers back in this way?

Israel is aware of its military superiority. That is why it acts in this way. But it will never get peace in this way. The only way is to recognise the historical injustice done to the Palestinian people by the creation of Israel and its subsequent actions, and to talk to its legitimate representatives which today is Hamas (like it or not).

The people of Israel are being led up the garden path by their government. There are an increasing number of Israelis who are aware of the stupidity of their government's actions. More need to raise their voices - unlike davetlv.

[davetlv]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

davetlv talking out of his ass again. He quotes every line to make a mockerey while disproving nothing. I don't have to list the UN resolutions imposed against Israel, i don't have to list the war crimes and massacres committed. They are available on the web for you to see from 'moderate' websites not from your uncle rabbi bookshop.

You make a mockery of yourself. You accuse Israel of things without the abilitiy to back up your arguements in history or law. You've now gone from Israel is breaking every international law to to talk about UN resolutions - the two things are not the same, so in future that we may actually converse here, what the fuck are you talking about?

And btw, my uncle isn't a rabbi, my great grandfather was though.

Israel never seems to learn.

You're right there, we never learn that some of our neighbours prefer to kill us than live in peace. Maybe you would like to bring to table here and now all the peace plans, dating back to end of the Ottoman empire that have been accepted by Israel but rejected by its neighbours. Or do you just want to continue sprouting crap all day long.

But their governments have never really shown a true insight into how it can live in peace with its neighbours. Initially created as a colonial outpost, as a result of a secular ideology called Zionism,

Bwahahahahaha, Jewish pray for thousands of years has talked about the return to Zion, every passover the service is complete with a song, Beshanah haba be yerusalim. Zionism sono, is a not a creating of the 19th century but a fundamental part of judaism.

it has never been consistent with the principles of Judaism.

See above

Today it acts as a regional bully.

Reminds me of a song by one Mr Bob Dylan

The Neighbourhood bully

Well, the neighborhood bully, he's just one man,
His enemies say he's on their land.
They got him outnumbered about a million to one,
He got no place to escape to, no place to run.
He's the neighborhood bully.

The neighborhood bully just lives to survive,
He's criticized and condemned for being alive.
He's not supposed to fight back, he's supposed to have thick skin,
He's supposed to lay down and die when his door is kicked in.
He's the neighborhood bully.

The neighborhood bully been driven out of every land,
He's wandered the earth an exiled man.
Seen his family scattered, his people hounded and torn,
He's always on trial for just being born.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Well, he knocked out a lynch mob, he was criticized,
Old women condemned him, said he should apologize.
Then he destroyed a bomb factory, nobody was glad.
The bombs were meant for him.
He was supposed to feel bad.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Well, the chances are against it and the odds are slim
That he'll live by the rules that the world makes for him,
'Cause there's a noose at his neck and a gun at his back
And a license to kill him is given out to every maniac.
He's the neighborhood bully.

He got no allies to really speak of.
What he gets he must pay for, he don't get it out of love.
He buys obsolete weapons and he won't be denied
But no one sends flesh and blood to fight by his side.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Well, he's surrounded by pacifists who all want peace,
They pray for it nightly that the bloodshed must cease.
Now, they wouldn't hurt a fly.
To hurt one they would weep.
They lay and they wait for this bully to fall asleep.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Every empire that's enslaved him is gone,
Egypt and Rome, even the great Babylon.
He's made a garden of paradise in the desert sand,
In bed with nobody, under no one's command.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Now his holiest books have been trampled upon,
No contract he signed was worth what it was written on.
He took the crumbs of the world and he turned it into wealth,
Took sickness and disease and he turned it into health.
He's the neighborhood bully.

What's anybody indebted to him for?
Nothin', they say.
He just likes to cause war.
Pride and prejudice and superstition indeed,
They wait for this bully like a dog waits to feed.
He's the neighborhood bully.

What has he done to wear so many scars?
Does he change the course of rivers?
Does he pollute the moon and stars?
Neighborhood bully, standing on the hill,
Running out the clock, time standing still,
Neighborhood bully.

When Hamas or Hizbullah capture/kidnap Israeli soldiers, Ohlmert's regime's response is that of the school bully who lashes out at the entire class for the misdemeanours of one or two, in the process setting the whole school on fire. Does it really think it is going to get it's soldiers back in this way?

And what would your response be?

Israel is aware of its military superiority. That is why it acts in this way.

First correct thing you have said here. Israel is aware of it military superiority, and therefore, due to this awarness, we havent seen ten of thousands of people injured or killed. Whilst you condemn Israel here for the northern incursion aI note that you are quiet on the front of attacks on my country, which led to the escilation we now see. Now whos the hypocrit?

But it will never get peace in this way. The only way is to recognise the historical injustice done to the Palestinian people by the creation of Israel and its subsequent actions, and to talk to its legitimate representatives which today is Hamas (like it or not).

You mean like bringing to the table a viable offer for peace, like maybe withdrawal from Gaza, withdrawal from East Jerusalem allowing the Palestinians to have their capital city there, and the withdrawal from 97% of the West Bank - whilst making territorial compimises for the remaining 3 % - whoops did all that, this is the offer with Pappa Smurf rejected in 2000 and instead of making any counter proposals he instigated and funded the Idiotfada.

The people of Israel are being led up the garden path by their government. There are an increasing number of Israelis who are aware of the stupidity of their government's actions. More need to raise their voices - unlike davetlv.

And this is why we have voted for a coalition centre left government who intend to finally clarify the borders of this beautiful 1% of land space in the middle east.

Wanna throw anything else at me sono, be my guest, just make sure its a little bit harder for me to punch holes in your pathetic attempt.

Now sono stand up, wipe your mouth, I've finished with you.

[KinKyJ]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

Sono is a freedom hater.


Btw, Kinky, "Freedom is a mental disorder" is actually a bumper sticker over here, and while i agree that it is a mental disorder, it's kind of a joke, or did you not hold a profession as a comedian in your life yet?

Hehehe, didn't know that Jenks. Well, kinda puts things in perspective...

[Kamal]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

What's a jewish country doing in the middle of 30 Arab countries. Go back to Germany or russia, it's where the majority of jews living in israel now came from.

I cant beleive I missed reading the most stupidest thing that has EVER crossed my eyes. Sono my friend, there are 140 MILLION Muslims (the second largest collection of Muslims in the world) SMACK DAB in the middle of 850 MILLION Indians in India. With all due respect, should we ask them to go back to Pakistan or the Middle East or wherever it is they're from?

Your radical opinions make me think you're the one who's actually trying to spread HATE against the Israeli's instead of trying to do something constructive. Sorry but yes I am Pro Israel.

I said this in another thread in the Politics forum and now I'll say it again. The reason why most are anti-Muslim sentiment is extremely well quoted by a news reporter in India who ended an article on terrorism saying

"All Muslims may not be terrorists, but ALL terrorists are Muslims".

So before you start off by saying some shit like oh but Israel is doing it too, try looking at where it stems from.

[BobbyJassi]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

davetlv talking out of his ass again. He quotes every line to make a mockerey while disproving nothing. I don't have to list the UN resolutions imposed against Israel, i don't have to list the war crimes and massacres committed. They are available on the web for you to see from 'moderate' websites not from your uncle rabbi bookshop.

Basically your full of sh*t?

[asdf_admin]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

wow. been watching this unfold on the Tele all day. Nuts.

Headlines From Drudge:

Israel deploys Patriot missiles in Haifa...
'Iran helping Hezbollah'...
'Iran-made missile hit ship'...
Israeli airstrikes hit bridges, gas stations in east, south and central Lebanon...
Hizbollah chief defiant...
Venezuela's Chavez says USA backing of Israel is taking world toward 'Holocaust'...

PAPER: ISRAEL GIVES SYRIA ULTIMATUM

[Kinetic]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

Huh...

I don´t have much to say on this matter except that history has proven that ignorance, stupidity and blind prejudice always lose in the end.

And I can see quite clearly where those flaws lie in this conflict.

For me, its as simple as that.

[asdf_admin]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

Gingrich says it's World War III

http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/davidpostman/archives/2006/07/gingrich_says_its_world_war_iii.html

[KinKyJ]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.co...d_war_iii.html

You know, the first thing that went through my head when I read "Gingrich says it's World War III", was "yeahhhh right, here we go again." But in fact he's right if you see WWIII as a global event rather than comparing it to WWI and II. It is a war without frontlines and well identifiable armies.

The reason why I went "yeah right" was because of the connection I made with Bush's beloved "War on Terrorism" (and we all know what purpose that "war" served in the end). Anyway, I'm not going to go into that again, I've made my point clear in my previous post.

In the mean time things are starting to move on the diplomatic front. Prodi (the Italian PM) already tries to moderate and has even asked Iran to join the negotiations. The latter is imo a good idea. Working together with the Iranians in order to calm the situation down is an opportunity which could be beneficial to the discussion about the nuclear program. And of course, apart from that it's probably one of the only countries that has some influence on the Hezbollah.

Meanwhile the G8 gathered in Moscow and had the conflict on the agenda. But as to be expected (sad sad sad), even the leading industrial countries are divided on the issue. That became very clear when the statement was presented.

Leaders of the G8 nations have blamed extremist forces for the latest crisis in the Middle East, but called on Israel to end military operations.

The statement - issued after hours of difficult negotiations - calls for the release of three captured Israeli soldiers - one in the Gaza Strip.

It also urges militants to stop shelling of Israeli territory.

Leaders also urged Israel to withdraw its forces from Gaza and to release arrested Palestinian politicians.

The leaders of the world's eight top economic powers are meeting in St Petersburg.

The statement, described to reporters by German Chancellor Angela Merkel, revealed concern over the rising civilian casualties on both sides.

It blamed the immediate crisis on "extremist forces", including Hamas and Hezbollah, which it said wanted to destabilise the region and frustrate the Palestinian, Israeli and Lebanese peoples' aspirations for democracy and peace.

BBC diplomatic correspondent Jonathan Marcus says the leaders also set out steps that the Lebanese government, Israeli authorities and Palestinian politicians must take to create peace.

The G8 gave its full support to the UN mission to the region in implementing its proposals, and to efforts by the EU's foreign policy chief, Javier Solana.

The statement follows earlier divisions between US and French policy over the Middle East crisis.

US President George W Bush insisted Israel was defending itself against terror and that Hezbollah was the root of the crisis.

But French President Jacques Chirac spoke out in defence of Lebanon.

Full story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5185728.stm

I don't want to be negative, but I think the above is a perfect illustration of what is wrong with the international community when it's expected to intervene.

At this moment, the discussion about who's right and who's wrong isn't relevant at all. It doesn't matter from which side the missiles are fired or where bombs are being dropped. What matters is that on both sides there are civilian casualties. It's not Israel nor Hezbollah who is taking the losses, but the people in Lebanon as well as in Israel. People who have nothing to do with the conflict, but suddenly wake up to find their house or place of business destroyed or even worse, realise they're never going to see friends or relatives again.

I don't want to sound like a flower smelling hippie, but after 11 pages, I thought it was important to throw this element into the discussion.

[evangelion]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

I've been keeping up with this since it all started and all I've been thinking the whole time is "This is the start of World War 3." I certainly fucking hope not, but I've got this feeling that China, Russia, North Korea and Iran all have their hands in this. The way I see it, Hezbollah started all of this by kidnapping those Isreali soldiers. Seriously, did they not think this would be the reaction?? Did they think Isreal was just going to sit tight and say "It's cool guys, sorry about your bad luck!!!" No.

Now I agree that Isreal has fired back with reckless abandon, but do any of us know what it's like to be surrounded by countries full of people that want you and your country to be "wiped off the map??" I sure as hell don't.

Now the captured soldiers are supposedly being transported to Iran...should Isreal by relieved by this news?? Should they call off the attacks and forget about everything?? How many rockets have been fired into Isreal in the past 4 days??

The thing is, Isreal doesn't play like we do. These assholes kidnap 2 of their soldiers and they say "Ok, we'll bomb your country into the Stone Age until you give them back." Sounds like they are speaking these terrorists language to me. Innocent Lebonese do not deserve to die for Hezbollah's actions, but dammit innocent Isrealis don't deserve to die for nothing more than being Isrealis either.

i feel terrible about the jewish population, every time they get shit on throughout history a major war breaks out because they try to defend themselves, and act tough doing it, and in the end, they get more crap and thier portrayal is destroyed. still half of our grandparents genreations blame the jewish society for ww2 and it just isnt right. they were blamed for the early wars in the middle east all because the muslim population wanted control, and it wasnt right. now they are being called agressive and barbaric all because 2-3 groups of people are shitting on them and they are defending themselves.

When have the Jews ever caught a break?? The most persecuted people in all of human history IMO.

It's nice having America on your side. Oh and by the way, do any of you americans know where billions of your tax money goes? Yes, you guessed it, NOT loans BUT donations to israel. Israel has no economy and relied on the US throughout its history to bankroll its existence in the middle east.

simple no?

Good...I'm glad we give money to Isreal. I'm sure they are fighting those Hezbollah bastards with American F-16s and Apache helicopters. I hope those motherfuckers shooting rockets into schools and residential areas like the taste of Hellfires.

"All Muslims may not be terrorists, but ALL terrorists are Muslims".

I've been serching for those words for years. Thanks Kamal.


And on a final note, sono, you really need to go to movie or get laid or get drunk or something. It almost seems like you are saying this shit on purpose, just trying to piss people off.

[Kamal]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

I've been serching for those words for years. Thanks Kamal.

Hope that wasn't intended to be sarcastic (damn interweb)

[evangelion]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

And what if it was??









No way, dude...not at all.

[Kamal]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

just making sure....

[Kamal]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

At this moment, the discussion about who's right and who's wrong isn't relevant at all. It doesn't matter from which side the missiles are fired or where bombs are being dropped. What matters is that on both sides there are civilian casualties. It's not Israel nor Hezbollah who is taking the losses, but the people in Lebanon as well as in Israel. People who have nothing to do with the conflict, but suddenly wake up to find their house or place of business destroyed or even worse, realise they're never going to see friends or relatives again.

Jan, I have to disagree to a certain extent with this because in most cases, people in power will converge the mindset of a region based on their own agendas, what's worse when democractic elections are held are that the "innocent" people of a region are bringing to power, a government to carry out what pretty much everyone in the community is hoping to achieve. So innocence is a relative term here.

Moreover, whether innocent civillians or not, they stand to be affected by the consequences of it IF they are at war or IF they are not (because neighboring countries of Israel will continue their crap one way or another). Keeping quiet with radical people will definitely not go well. IMO its better to face a few casualties today than to have a never ending slow bleed and before you realize it, it's year 2257.

[KinKyJ]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

Jan, I have to disagree to a certain extent with this because in most cases, people in power will converge the mindset of a region based on their own agendas, what's worse when democractic elections are held are that the "innocent people of a region are bringing to power, a government to carry out what pretty much everyone in the community is hoping to achieve.

So it's like: I'm sorry lads, but you've voted for the wrong guys... Here, have a bomb or two.

So whether innocent civillians or not, they stand to be affected by the consequences of it IF they are at war or IF they are not (because neighboring countries of Israel will continue their crap one way or another). Keeping quiet with radical people will definitely not go well. IMO its better to face a few casualties today than to have a never ending slow bleed and before you realize it, it's year 2257.

*hums* not much has changed, but they live under water