Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

[KinKyJ]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

seriously, im destined to help this species in a great manner. and i dont mean creating a strand of weed via cross pollenation that is undetectable and incredibly potent. (movie?)

Who are you talking about? The Israelis? The Lebaneze? Or were you just too drunk again to post in the right thread?

[thesightless]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

this is disgusting.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5190902.stm

more and more, i think bush just misspelled the word and we should have fought iran , not iraq. they arent even trying to think about peace, just trying to drum up a few million people's support for a genocide.

[asdf_admin]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

I think in more recent days my side value has change with Lebanon and not with Israel, and perhaps it is because of the "disproportionate" actions. Here are my factors:

- Israel is crippling a country and not Hezbollah
- "disproportionate" attacks. "I ate your candy, so you go kill my family"
- In more recent days has actually invaded Lebanon, not any more a campaign to weed out the bad guys, but actually an invasion. .
- Military targets as from photos, video and an interesting report from CNN, looked like more apartments, not military installations. I have a few issues with that.
- this photo triggered my recourse in thought and feeling. it's a dead child in the middle of no where. please note all the military power and strength around the target, but please do not overlook the dead child.




summary. perhaps i am upset because it reminds of my two year old daughter, and i think of all the countless other daughters that have been killed because of this attack. killed because grown men are fighting over lines in sand, for iconic values, and most of all because of hate and justification to spill each other's blood. that is what is going on there. There is no evident reason this is going on. It's a bunch of ticked off people on both sides of the picket fence that do not want to see peace but rather the other side's blood. i feel disgusting. final answer.

[threehills]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

@ Sean. I think your idea of an Israili and Lebonnese alliance is brilliant. It would be a major step towards lasting peace. If nothing more, help silince those who look at this as strictly one religion trying to wipe out the other.

@ASDF Do you think the Hezzies want to bring in CNN to show all their destroyed military targerts? To have it shown that the IDF's attacks are being effective? No of course not. They want the pictures of killed civilians to be broadcast in an attempt to garner support for their cause.

And you idea of disproportionate attacks? So the IDF should just fire a few missles back into Lebannon and maybe kidnap a person or two... which would accomplish nothing militarily, do nothing to harm the Hezzies, do nothing to remove them from power, do nothing to prevent future violence....thats a great idea.

[asdf_admin]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

threehills, I though that as well in the start of this fight. but as of late, the stats will show otherwise. Last time I check was over 300 people have died on the Lebanon side, and about 30 on the Israeli. Lebanon is weak, and fragile. Israel is very strong with military power, perhaps one of the strongest in the region, actually it is. Lebabon is not a power house country, and surely Hezbollah is not. 20% is in the parliment for Lebanon. You start adding in all these numbers, and you really start to see a weight difference.

Of course I am aware of propaganda. But honestly it's that photo from above that has changed my view. It does not lie.

[thesightless]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

i hear you, a parents love for thier child supercedes everything else and is essentially the reason you continue to bear the responsibility of a job, house, food, etc. but remember in the back of your mind, that this is not an enemy who wears a uniform and follows the internationally agreed laws of combat, but rather, it is a shadow, one that lurks within the population. the hezzbollah and hamas and al queada groups do not have bases, but houses, they do not have training facilites, they have backyards. and for years, with the assistance of governments and wealthy people with agendas, they have grown to a disturbing proportion.

dominick. i completly understand where you are coming from, but think again, if your neighbor was hezbollah militant, and he had a family. if he was breeding hate, trying to murder innocents, or supplying a bomb manufacturing facility or an ammor storage wharehouse, would it really be hard to contemplate what he has brought upon his family? and furthermore, if they were bombed, who is truly to blame? the people who are defending themselves against him, or him, the instigator?

also, if the Oregon government was unable to stop his work, and say his target was a canadian village over the border, and he was receiving his supplies via an airport with corrupted employees, can you blame the oregon gov't if they step back and allow canada to cut his supply lines while looking for his actual location? its a lot of hypotheticals, but they are happening, just not in our backyard yet.

as vile as the situation is over there, everyone needs to step back and empathize both groups. in the end, whether we agree or not, we all need to understand where all this comes from, in all ways. historically, socially, politically, and militarily.

there is no age limit on the terrorist organizations. hamas is actually known to send in thier own children with bombs on thier backs. two were captured in isreal last year. they didnt blow themselves up. however, after the events post-capture, the children actually stayed in isreal, then were sent to europe to be schooled and cared for since thier parents were so willing to send thier children to death because of thier own hatred.

[asdf_admin]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

The Lebanese Minister of Defense warned Israel Thursday that if IDF ground forces are sent into southern Lebanon, Lebanese troops will fight along with the Hizbullah against Israel.

fucking wonderful. yeah more death. kill. kill. kill!

[asdf_admin]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

dominick. i completly understand where you are coming from, but think again, if your neighbor was hezbollah militant, and he had a family. if he was breeding hate, trying to murder innocents, or supplying a bomb manufacturing facility or an ammor storage wharehouse, would it really be hard to contemplate what he has brought upon his family? and furthermore, if they were bombed, who is truly to blame? the people who are defending themselves against him, or him, the instigator?

also, if the Oregon government was unable to stop his work, and say his target was a canadian village over the border, and he was receiving his supplies via an airport with corrupted employees, can you blame the oregon gov't if they step back and allow canada to cut his supply lines while looking for his actual location? its a lot of hypotheticals, but they are happening, just not in our backyard yet.

as vile as the situation is over there, everyone needs to step back and empathize both groups. in the end, whether we agree or not, we all need to understand where all this comes from, in all ways. historically, socially, politically, and militarily.

i know Sean. and I completely understand bro. All the bullshit happens on both sides. Israel is no different then Hezbollah at this moment and I reference that in the sense of what is the final outcome ... death. I guess my main point that I am trying to convey that both sides are equally as bad. and from the most recent headline, looks like shit just got deeper. so wonderful.

like i said. KILL KILL KILL KILL!

[thesightless]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

in regards to the lebanese gov't sending in the troops...

while thier defense minister says this, the gov't is quite split on how to deal with it. most of the gov't is opting to allow isreal to handle te dirty work. so take it with a grain of salt for the next few hours/days. isreal may very well become over agressive, and then they have every right to react. but as we speak right now, they are doing the right thing. they are allowing themselves to essentially subcontract out a police force that can handle the work they cannot. as davetlv gave us before... www.thereligionofpeace.com , while heavily biased, does indeed document every attack that the people, not the militaries of the region, bring upon innocent people. there are more than i ever could have imagined. if a gov't realizes that it is incapable of handling a situation that is this bad, it may very well be in the best long term interests of every human in the area that this happens.

[thesightless]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

and this isnt even the worst part of it. just wait until someone does something extremely dumb and iran and/or syria become involved. it will spread like wildfire and become extremely violent.

[asdf_admin]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

i guess am i sick of seeing blood being spilled. point and point on both sides.

[asdf_admin]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

and this isnt even the worst part of it. just wait until someone does something extremely dumb and iran and/or syria become involved. it will spread like wildfire and become extremely violent.

yeah. that is what i am worried about. very fragile.

[thesightless]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

alas, like said on the previous page, let iran become involved mlitarily. there isnt a member nation within the UN outside of a few middle eastern countries that wouldnt hesitate to bring a vast might of a united military operation upon iran. they would love to rid the world of amenijhad (spelling i know) and the puppet master ayatollahs who seek to send this world into a dark age, regressing human and religous rights, quieting science in the name of faith, and willing to violently exert thier viewpoints and influence upon groups who disagree.

[evangelion]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

It sucks to see dead kids, but when the enemy hides among them, that's going to be the result. That truck in the background could have been full of explosives en route to a Hezbollah hideout for all we know. I don't get caught up in heart-wrenching pictures like that because we just don't know the circumstances behind that child's death. I wouldn't put it pass those bastards to blow up the truck with the kid and his family in it, then take a picture and post in the internet to say "Look what Israel is doing!!!" We just don't know.

If anything I blame the kids parents for not doing anything to try and drive out these extremists before it got to this point.

[KinKyJ]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

It sucks to see dead kids, but when the enemy hides among them, that's going to be the result. That truck in the background could have been full of explosives en route to a Hezbollah hideout for all we know. I don't get caught up in heart-wrenching pictures like that because we just don't know the circumstances behind that child's death. I wouldn't put it pass those bastards to blow up the truck with the kid and his family in it, then take a picture and post in the internet to say "Look what Israel is doing!!!" We just don't know.

Hokey, maybe it's because some people don't want to read it, or maybe it's because it got read over, so I'll say it for the third time this week (this time in a larger font, maybe it'll stick that way)

The blown up van in the picture wasn't an army truck and neither was it loaded with explosives or any logisitical support for Hezbollah. It was a truck which was evacuating civilians out of a (Hezbollah stronghold) village which was being bombarded.

Now as for the reason it got hit, I'd like to give the IAF the benefit of the doubt rather than to go shout slogans against them. I can't imagine that Israelis would deliberately unleash hellfire and damnation on a van if they knew it was packed with kids.

I talked with a friend of mine on the phone today who's a journalist working for the Belgian TV in Lebanon. He had just visited the Shiite part of Beirut and he was devastated from what he had seen there. In a week time the entire neighbourhood was completely leveled. He agreed that there were Hezbollah militants living in the blocks, but so did hundreds of thousands of civilians. I must say that I was quite shocked by his reaction because he's often on mission in war zones (like Iraq for instance), but he said he had never seen such devastation on a couple of square miles before in a war. To quote him: "Yes, this was Hezbollah territory, but Israel isn't targeting military structures at all in this part of Beirut. It's clear that this is a collective punishment since civilian targets are being."

Now you could argue that Hezbollah has always specialised in guerilla tactics and that this makes it hard to strike them, but the fact of the matter is that all survivors have left the area while Hezbollah militants are still there.

I'm changing not my opinion that Israel should go ahead and wipe Hezbollah out, but I'm becoming quite critical on how this is done. Like I said before, Hezbollah plays the guerilla card and you can't break that kind of resistance by using brute force. If you doubt that, you should ask the Russians about their ventures in Afganistan...

After a week or so, I haven't heard one single declaration about the progress or status of the mission. What I do know is that 1 Lebaneze out of 6 is on the run for the violence now and that hospitals are almost out of supplies. Fortunately Israel has agreed on coridors for the safe passage of civilians.

Nevertheless, I'm starting to ask myself whether Israel will win this war using the current strategy. I'm not a military expert, so I'm not going to pretend I know the alternative. However, my fear is that this is turning into a humanitarian catastrophy. That would ONLY benefit Hezbollah as they prey on these things in order to get more support...

If anything I blame the kids parents for not doing anything to try and drive out these extremists before it got to this point.

I'm sorry to say it this bluntly, but you're being naive Evangelion, it's less simplistic than you think. Go back a few pages and you'll find a link to an overview of the (recent) history of Lebanon. If you go over it, you'll get a general idea of the complexity of the situation...

As a general remark, I think everybody is entitled to have an opinion and to share it. On the other hand - and I don't want to be arrogant - I think with regard to this crisis it's not enough to be aware of the current events. Read up about the region, about the past conflicts and about the stakeholders (like a lot of people posting here already started doing) before you stampede through this thread...