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my apologies then....I just assumed it was towards me as it was right under my post. I hope the people you know over there are safe as well
sigpic RIP Steve "Jibs" James - Your footprint is forever on my soul and in my heart xoxo RIP Jeff Shewchuk aka DJ Jeff Taylor (day_for_night) - You will live on in my heart forever xoxo
Life isn't about how to survive the storm, but how to dance in the rain.
^^^ well most ppl quote what they are attacking unless it is directly below the comment, which in this case it wasn't near the comment
sigpic RIP Steve "Jibs" James - Your footprint is forever on my soul and in my heart xoxo RIP Jeff Shewchuk aka DJ Jeff Taylor (day_for_night) - You will live on in my heart forever xoxo
Life isn't about how to survive the storm, but how to dance in the rain.
no, i was just calling a douchbag out. god i hope that kid gets into a car accident, and wakes up in a hospital with a hasidic doctor standing over him saying "boy you really should thank rabbi horowitz for the 2 pints of blood he gave you. i had a lot of hard work, but i saved your life. shalom''
your life is an occasion, rise to it.
Join My Chant. new mix. april 09. dirty fuck house.
download that. deep shit listed there
^^^ well most ppl quote what they are attacking unless it is directly below the comment, which in this case it wasn't near the comment
You're so easy to tick off, you know? [/off topic]
Originally posted by thesightless
no, i was just calling a douchbag out. god i hope that kid gets into a car accident, and wakes up in a hospital with a hasidic doctor standing over him saying "boy you really should thank rabbi horowitz for the 2 pints of blood he gave you. i had a lot of hard work, but i saved your life. shalom''
Interesting read Karen. You should probably post this in the other thread going on in GYY for the people who don't visit the politics section. Really insightful.
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." -Benjamin Franklin
THE REAL aim is to change the regime in Lebanon and to install a puppet government.
That was the aim of Ariel Sharon's invasion of Lebanon in 1982. It failed. But Sharon and his pupils in the military and political leadership have never really given up on it.
As in 1982, the present operation, too, was planned and is being carried out in full coordination with the US.
As then, there is no doubt that it is coordinated with a part of the Lebanese elite.
That's the main thing. Everything else is noise and propaganda.
ON THE eve of the 1982 invasion, Secretary of State Alexander Haig told Ariel Sharon that, before starting it, it was necessary to have a "clear provocation", which would be accepted by the world.
The provocation indeed took place - exactly at the appropriate time - when Abu-Nidal's terror gang tried to assassinate the Israeli ambassador in London. This had no connection with Lebanon, and even less with the PLO (the enemy of Abu-Nidal), but it served its purpose.
This time, the necessary provocation has been provided by the capture of the two Israeli soldiers by Hizbullah. Everyone knows that they cannot be freed except through an exchange of prisoners. But the huge military campaign that has been ready to go for months was sold to the Israeli and international public as a rescue operation.
(Strangely enough, the very same thing happened two weeks earlier in the Gaza Strip. Hamas and its partners captured a soldier, which provided the excuse for a massive operation that had been prepared for a long time and whose aim is to destroy the Palestinian government.)
THE DECLARED aim of the Lebanon operation is to push Hizbullah away from the border, so as to make it impossible for them to capture more soldiers and to launch rockets at Israeli towns. The invasion of the Gaza strip is also officially aimed at getting Ashkelon and Sderot out of the range of the Qassams.
That resembles the 1982 "Operation Peace for Gallilee". Then, the public and the Knesset were told that the aim of the war was to "push the Katyushas 40 km away from the border".
That was a deliberate lie. For 11 months before the war, not a single Katyusha rocket (nor a single shot) had been fired over the border. From the beginning, the aim of the operation was to reach Beirut and install a Quisling dictator. As I have recounted more than once, Sharon himself told me so nine months before the war, and I duly published it at the time, with his consent (but unattributed).
Of course, the present operation also has several secondary aims, which do not include the freeing of the prisoners. Everybody understands that that cannot be achieved by military means. But it is probably possible to destroy some of the thousands of missiles that Hizbullah has accumulated over the years. For this end, the army chiefs are ready to endanger the inhabitants of the Israeli towns that are exposed to the rockets. They believe that that is worthwhile, like an exchange of chess figures.
Another secondary aim is to rehabilitate the "deterrent power" of the army. That is a codeword for the restoration of the army's injured pride that has suffered a severe blow from the daring military actions of Hamas in the south and Hizbullah in the north.
OFFICIALLY, THE Israeli government demands that the Government of Lebanon disarm Hizbullah and remove it from the border region.
That is clearly impossible under the present Lebanese regime, a delicate fabric of ethno-religious communities. The slightest shock can bring the whole structure crashing down and throw the state into total anarchy - especially after the Americans succeeded in driving out the Syrian army, the only element that has for years provided some stability.
The idea of installing a Quisling in Lebanon is nothing new. In 1955, David Ben-Gurion proposed taking a "Christian officer" and installing him as dictator. Moshe Sharet showed that this idea was based on complete ignorance of Lebanese affairs and torpedoed it. But 27 years later, Ariel Sharon tried to put it into effect nevertheless. Bashir Gemayel was indeed installed as president, only to be murdered soon afterwards. His brother, Amin, succeeded him and signed a peace agreement with Israel, but was driven out of office. (The same brother is now publicly supporting the Israeli operation.)
The calculation now is that if the Israeli Air Force rains heavy enough blows on the Lebanese population - paralysing the sea- and airports, destroying the infrastructure, bombarding residential neighborhoods, cutting the Beirut-Damascus highroad etc. - the public will get furious with Hizbullah and pressure the Lebanese government into fulfilling Israel's demands. Since the present government cannot even dream of doing so, a dictatorship will be set up with Israel's support.
That is the military logic. I have my doubts. It can be assumed that most Lebanese will react as any other people on earth would: with fury and hatred towards the invader. That happened in 1982, when the Shiites in the south of Lebanon, until then as docile as a doormat, stood up against the Israeli occupiers and created the Hizbullah, which has become the strongest force in the country. If the Lebanese elite now becomes tainted as collaborators with Israel, it will be swept off the map. (By the way, have the Qassams and Katyushas caused the Israeli population to exert pressure on our government to give up? Quite the contrary.)
The American policy is full of contradictions. President Bush wants "regime change" in the Middle East, but the present Lebanese regime has only recently been set up by under American pressure. In the meantime, Bush has succeeded only in breaking up Iraq and causing a civil war (as foretold here). He may get the same in Lebanon, if he does not stop the Israeli army in time. Moreover, a devastating blow against Hizbullah may arouse fury not only in Iran, but also among the Shiites in Iraq, on whose support all of Bush's plans for a pro-American regime are built.
So what's the answer? Not by accident, Hizbullah has carried out its soldier-snatching raid at a time when the Palestinians are crying out for succor. The Palestinian cause is popular all over the Arab word. By showing that they are a friend in need, when all other Arabs are failing dismally, Hizbullah hopes to increase its popularity. If an Israeli-Palestinian agreement had been achieved by now, Hizbullah would be no more than a local Lebanese phenomenon, irrelevant to our situation.
LESS THAN three months after its formation, the Olmert-Peretz government has succeeded in plunging Israel into a two-front war, whose aims are unrealistic and whose results cannot be foreseen.
If Olmert hopes to be seen as Mister Macho-Macho, a Sharon # 2, he will be disappointed. The same goes for the desperate attempts of Peretz to be taken seriously as an imposing Mister Security. Everybody understands that this campaign - both in Gaza and in Lebanon - has been planned by the army and dictated by the army. The man who makes the decisions in Israel now is Dan Halutz. It is no accident that the job in Lebanon has been turned over to the Air Force.
The public is not enthusiastic about the war. It is resigned to it, in stoic fatalism, because it is being told that there is no alternative. And indeed, who can be against it? Who does not want to liberate the "kidnapped soldiers"? Who does not want to remove the Katyushas and rehabilitate deterrence? No politician dares to criticize the operation (except the Arab MKs, who are ignored by the Jewish public). In the media, the generals reign supreme, and not only those in uniform. There is almost no former general who is not being invited by the media to comment, explain and justify, all speaking in one voice.
(As an illustration: Israel's most popular TV channel invited me to an interview about the war, after hearing that I had taken part in an anti-war demonstration. I was quite surprised. But not for long - an hour before the broadcast, an apologetic talk-show host called and said that there had been a terrible mistake - they really meant to invite Professor Shlomo Avineri, a former Director General of the Foreign Office who can be counted on to justify any act of the government, whatever it may be, in lofty academic language.)
"Inter arma silent Musae" - when the weapons speak, the muses fall silent. Or, rather: when the guns roar, the brain ceases to function.
AND JUST a small thought: when the State of Israel was founded in the middle of a cruel war, a poster was plastered on the walls: "All the country - a front! All the people - an army!"
58 Years have passed, and the same slogan is still as valid as it was then. What does that say about generations of statesmen and generals?
As mentioned earlier on in Ury's article, military operations take a while to plan, which is why from the very beginning most people knew this invasion of Lebanon was not the cause of kidnapped israeli soldiers as stated over and over in the media.
People are fed up wars and mindless killings and will not tolerate it anymore. The internet has allowed individuals throughout the whole world to search for their own sources of information/news and avoid the force feeding of rubbish which big media calls news, down our throats.
"We are not attacking the Lebanese government". These sorts of remarks really do defy logic and the worst part of it is, it was made by ehud barak an ex israeli priminister.
This mind set of an ex israeli priminister is very disturbing and made many of my friends watching the show think WTF, how can this guy get on national television and unashamedly spew such rubbish and expect people to swallow it? Is this guy delusional or is he really trying to insult those with any thought capacity?
Below is a link to the transcript of the interview.
Follow the latest news headlines from Australia's most trusted source. Read in-depth expert analysis and watch live coverage on ABC News.
“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.”
― Marcus Tullius Cicero
Following Uri Avnery's perspective will lead to the end of the state of Israel and Jews living in Dhimitude here, if at all.
His extreme left wing vision for Israel isn't even shared by 10% of the population, for we know where his vision will lead.
Let's say his views are shared by 9% of the population, that's close to 570,000 thousand citizens, not something to be sneezed at, considering the whole population of israel numbers approx 6.3 million.
Besides, it does become difficult for many to just simply ignore the comments and thoughts of a man who was an israeli soldier and member of the knessett simply because the majority of the population don't like his views.
His vision it appears is, a vision for peace, fairness and equality amongst Palestinians and Israelis. Is that so bad?
Sure, many israelis might not like the dirty laundry that he may air about israel and it's actions, but that doesn't mean that what he has to say is in any way false or incorrect.
Actually pretty much what he says is incredibly accurate and can be backed up with his personal experience, connections, his obvious wealth of knowledge and documents ect,ect.
Mr Avnery is israels verion of Gore Vidal. Put simply, their views cannot be ignored.
I really urge anyone who has any interest in the Middle East conflicts to visit his website and have a read through some of his articles/documents and papers with some going back to 1998. You will get some israeli perspective which challenges and corrects much of the misinformation that gets dished out by our gutless and shameless media/news networks.
“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.”
― Marcus Tullius Cicero
Avnery's vision for Israel will lead to the destruciton of the state of Isreal. He has ignored the constant shelling of southern towns since the disengagement, and he has never spoken out against Hizbollah attack in the north which have intensified since Israel withdrew from Lebanon in 2000, let alone the 1600 rockets that have rained down on Israeli settlements in the north.
Avnery is to Israel what George Galloway is to the UK.
Dig, there are others on the left which look at the causes and remedies to the Palestinian/Israel issue which will allow for a two state solution as opposed to Jews living in Dhimitude.
Thanks alot dig72 for the last two posts , I will be visting the link you gave, but until then murder and destruction is still conituing and not a f&*()ing single country dare to open their mouth , thanks for the backing my BUSH.
Was reading your article Nathan and just stopped at this sentence to show how credible is your article. I'll copy and paste only since I don't know how to do it otherwise.
From the title The Next Election
As for Clinton ... don't make me laugh. George W. Bush is called dumb, but he's smarter than any of his immediate predecessors, because he understands that when your enemy has no scruples, has no vital interests to protect, and desires war, it is absurd to wait for them to get stronger and more dangerous.
wake up man the whole fucking world knows that he is a moron, what he did in Iraq was wrong and what he is doing by protecting Isreal not to be blamed is worng also.But the United states has the power so no one dares to say a single word..
wake up man the whole fucking world knows that he is a moron, what he did in Iraq was wrong and what he is doing by protecting Isreal not to be blamed is worng also.
Is there a logic behind that, or just moralising? Not trying to diss, just wondering where it's "wrong" to right an error that the UN should have handled in 1991 and where it's "wrong" for a sovereign nation to unleash Hell on another nation that harbors murderers and scum because they're too frightened to police themselves, even if those same murderers and scum use that nation's own populace as a shield against retribution while they commit actions that are condemned by any sort of civilized society. In my head, that's akin to having a serial rapist/cannibal living in your walls, going to and fro at will seeking whom they may violate and devour, and you're wondering why there's a SWAT team with a battering ram at your door.
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