16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

[malayday]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

thats a good question...'we have given them time?" and they always default?..haha wat a load of crap dood....try to be a bit objective....and im sorry ifi take long in responding i dont always have a computer on hand....so as for any logical response that beanzcheez was worried about ill try and give it just dont think because you dont get one immediately that you talk sense because sometimes you dont...i am not in lebenon niether do i have any remote connection...im watching cnn and bbc not al jazeera and the news im getting through these filtered machines is probabely a bit biased considering their role in the past few years....even so the shit that i se is just not right man....ambulances have blue sirens so they dont get bombed and they still do...civilivans in civilian cars fleeing the bombs are being bombed...they have to put white flags on the cars huge white cloths saying pplease oh please mr superpower trying to control everything answerable to no body please dont kill us too....and wat happens....bombs filled with phosphorous are dropped....which will cause more damage even if its targeted pin point it burns the fuck out of everything..gets stuck to skin and melts it...this kid the other day had his eyes stuck closed to his cheeks...his little year old sister has been burnt to a crisp but she still alive..thier dad is dead...and mom is alive...they were trying to leave thier town like the israely flyers told them to and they got bombed in an apparent hizbollah aimed attack...this shit about human shields is no justification man..its just isnt...no one bombs the shit out of a hostage situation...they negotioate get the inoocent people out and then fuk em all...right you seen the movies you know the protocol...so if that what these people are doing against their will, wait, talk, check it out...dont just kill everyone there and say yah..jobs done...cuz all these poeple are dying everyday and because apparently hizbollah is being destroyed...but still everyday rockets go into israel...so this high and mighty army is shit...thier 'presion guided'flesh burning bombs are useless... thier objectives are still not complete...and on the side they decide yeah make a trip over gaza and drop some shit over thier too....kill some kids...yay....no onne can say shit to us so why the fuk not.....
you have to understand that the images and information that the arab world is getting is not one of purpose or reason...its like you turn on the tv and (excuse the crude reference to race i am only trying to explain something) you see muslims and arabs or whatever gettting fuked up in palestine...then you see that shit in afghanistan then you see that shit in iraq then hey want iran now they fukin lebenon....i say they and you may be confused but you see its all in the same...its a white soldier from a white country be it america, israel, britain, fukin australia fukin denmark whatever the fuk its a white guy from a white country....then you see the white countriies become one common enemy one common oppressor.....
any militia or resistance to this opressor will be seen as heroic or indeed worthy of encouragement by the majority of the youths that exist within....did you know the arab countries have the most population of youths that is people from 19 to 29....something like an average of 38% soem even go up to 47% this is massive compared to say america where there is a meger 20%..or even less...i read this article dont quote my figures im just trying to remeber it it was by an american writer talking about the 'summer of rage' compared to the late 60's summer of love...anyway im gone a bit off the topic...i just wanted to show that these hizbollah fighters is not some boon that israel is now getting rid of for the lebanese people and the rest of the world...they will only gain support as more and more civilians die....so will hamas so will eventually the so called al qaeda....this is only adding fuel to the fire....
the shit about the un resolution is a bunch of bulshit too..this resoultion was passed for a young government one unable to meet the damenads expected...rice even said that and yet this resolution is being referred to as if its completely legitimate if you make a schedule for a friend knowing that he is unable or incapable to go through with it i think its unfair to refer to it as some faliure and in need of rectification later....
this is all a bunch of stinky bullshit...and you guys know it man....dont justify this...please..just cuz they arent white people dying shouldnt mean you cant relate to it...next time picture a white person screaming with fear or anger as thier families are blown or fried into non existance.....instead of accepting that these people are "they" and "we" somehow are excluded'...we are all humans man...we are all the same...

[KinKyJ]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

dude, use paragraphes, capitals and proper interpunction and I'll do the effort to read your post

[thesightless]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

What do you mean by WE the sightless????

the UN, EU, USA, and individual countries like russia, and india. everywhere a region surrounds the middle east there are violent groups trying to impose islamic law on people who dont want it. go ask a somali who won the world cup.... they dont kknow b/c the ICU banned it and murdered 14 people including 4 under the age of 12 because they were watching.

no no no no no no no... no more negotiations, just halt these efforts now.

[Bululu]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

Impose islamic laws , heheheheh man some times you are funny , do you know that in Lebanon christian population is more than the Muslim one , and they live in harmony and peace until your government wanted to push this stupid Great Middle East idea and instore it, your government is evil and let me remember you some facts , before the first Gulf War Saddam had the backing of the US government to go into Kuwait, and when he did they fucked him up top install their bases in all that region. The US government in not intrested in peace in that region, as long as that conflict is going on your government will be selling weapons to all the region , I repeat it your government is EVIL.
PS: if you are really caring about thoes people in Somalia your better as well read a bit more and see what is really happening in Africa , Congo , Ivory Coat and and and ....

[thesightless]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

tell me where i talked about lebanon here, when i explicitly spoke of somalia, and kashmir. just wondering. dont pull my views on hezzbollah in lebanon into an arguement on the problem of armed groups of people killing people who stand in their way of opressing freedoms. i know lebanon has a christian contingent. and frankly, the county was making steps to becoming a more humane region since syria was booted out. its a shame that a small army of gun toting fanatics took over the south.

[malayday]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

youl be surprised how much islamic law coincides with your own constitution..they have fundamental similarities may have some details that are different but the jist s pretty much the same....when shariah or islamic law is interpreted right it is pretty much the same as any other modern western capitalist country....ofcourse the details of which will differ just as they do amongst other non islamic countries....and this small army of gun toting fanatics are giving the fully equipped hi tech first world american israely army a hell of tough time...this small miniscual army is actually quite stronge....i doubt its just a few of..and im sure the resistance will only increase like i said before...

and mr kinky j im sorry dood i didnt think i was writing for phd people its just words man...read em if your interested it probabely woudnt matter how its written if you lookin for what the person is writing about.....next time, i will, try to, be as punctuation conciensous as possible...and ill fix my sepilling too....

[dig72]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

[QUOTE]

.Had Hozbollah not rained rockets into northern Israel as a pretext to murder and abduct members of the IDF on Israeli soil, you would not be in the position you are in now and I would not have to read your attack on Israel on these pages.

Many other sources reported otherwise.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/israeli_solders.html

http://www.forbes.com/technology/feeds/ap/2006/07/12/ap2873051.html

[dig72]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

Latest by Uri Avnery
In the Gunsight: Syria! or: A Nice Little War
29-7-06


IT IS the old story about the losing gambler: he cannot stop. He continues to play, in order to win his losses back. He continues to lose and continues to gamble, until he has lost everything: his ranch, his wife, his shirt.
The same thing happens in the biggest gamble of all: war. The leaders that start a war and get stuck in the mud are compelled to fight their way ever deeper into the mud. That is a part of the very essence of war: it is impossible to stop after a failure. Public opinion demands the promised victory. Incompetent generals need to cover up their failure. Military commentators and other armchair strategists demand a massive offensive. Cynical politicians are riding the wave. The government is carried away by the flood that they themselves have let loose.
That is what happened this week, following the battle of Bint-Jbeil, which the Arabs have already started to call proudly Nasrallahgrad. All over Israel the cry goes up: Get into it! Quicker! Further! Deeper!
A day after the bloody battle, the cabinet decided on a massive mobilization of the reserves. What for? The ministers do not know. But it does not depend on them anymore, nor on the generals. The political and military leadership is tossed about on the waves of war like a boat without a rudder.
As has been said before: it is much easier to start a war than to finish one. The cabinet believes that it controls the war, but in reality it is the war that controls them. They have mounted a tiger, and can't be sure of getting off without being torn to pieces.
War has its own rules. Unexpected things happen and dictate the next moves. And the next moves tend to be in one direction: escalation.
DAN HALUTZ, the father of this war, thought that he could eliminate Hizbullah by means of the Air Force, the most sophisticated, most efficient and the generally most-most air force in the world. A few days of massive pounding, thousands of tons of bombs on neighborhoods, roads, electricity works and ports - and that's it.
Well, that wasn't it, as it turned out. The Hizbullah rockets continued to land in the north of Israel, hundreds a day. The public cried out. There was no way round a ground operation. First, small, elite units were put in. That did not help. Then brigades were deployed. And now whole divisions are demanded.
First they wanted to annihilate the Hizbullah positions along the border. When it was seen that that was not enough, it was decided to conquer the hills that dominate the border. There, the Hizbullah fighters were waiting and caused heavy casualties. And the rockets continued to fly.
Now the generals are convinced that there is no alternative to occupying the whole area up to the Litani River, about 24 km from the border, in order to prevent the rockets from being launched from there. Then they will find out that they have to reach the Awali River, 40 km inside - the famous 40 km which Menachem Begin talked about in 1982.
And then? The Israeli army will be extended over a large area, and everywhere it will be exposed to guerilla attacks, of the sort Hizbullah excels in. And the missiles will continue to fly.
What next? One cannot stop. Public opinion will demand more decisive moves. Political demagogues will shout. Commentators will grumble. The people in the shelters will cry out. The generals will feel the heat. One cannot keep tens of thousands of reserve soldiers mobilized indefinitely. It is impossible to prolong a situation which paralyzes a third of the country.
Everybody will clamor to storm forwards. Where to? Towards Beirut in the North? Or towards Damascus, in the East?
THE CABINET ministers recite in unison: No! Never ever! We shall not attack Syria!
Perhaps some of them really don't intend to. They do not dream of a war with Syria. Definitely not. But the ministers only delude themselves when they believe that they control the war. The war controls them.
When it becomes clear that nothing is helping, that Hizbullah goes on fighting and the rockets continue to fly, the political and military leadership will face bankruptcy. They will need to pin the blame on somebody. On who? Well, on Assad, of course.
How is it possible that a small "terror organization", with a few thousand fighters altogether, goes on fighting? Where do they get the arms from? The finger will point towards Syria.
Even now, the army commanders assert that new rockets are flowing all the time from Syria to Hizbullah. True, the roads have been bombed, the bridges destroyed, but the arms somehow continue to arrive. The Israeli government demands that an international force be stationed not only along the Israeli-Lebanese border, but on the Lebanese-Syrian border, too. The queue of volunteers will not be long.
Then the generals will demand the bombing of roads and bridges inside Syria. For that, the Syrian Air Force will have to be neutralized. In short, a real war, with implications for the whole Middle East.
EHUD OLMERT and Amir Peretz did not think about that when they decided 17 days ago in haste and light heartedly, without serious debate, without examining other options, without calculating the risks, to attack Hizbullah. For politicians who do not know what war is, it was an irresistible temptation: there was a clear provocation by Hizbullah, international support was assured, what a wonderful opportunity! They would do what even Sharon did not dare.
Dan Halutz submitted an offer that could not be refused. A nice little war. Military plans were ready and well rehearsed. Certain victory. The more so, since on the other side there was no real enemy army, just a "terror organization".
How hotly the desire was burning in the hearts of Olmert and Peretz is attested by the fact that they did not even think about the lack of shelters in the Northern towns, not to mention the far-reaching economic and social implications. The main thing was to rush in and gather the laurels.
They had no time to think seriously about the war aim. Now they resemble archers who shoot their arrows at a blank sheet and then draw the rings around the arrow. The aims change daily: to destroy Hizbullah, to disarm them, to drive them out of South Lebanon, and perhaps just to "weaken" them. To kill Hassan Nasrallah. To bring the captured soldiers home. To extend the sovereignty of the Lebanese government over all of Lebanon. To establish a new-old Security Zone occupied by Israel. To deploy the Lebanese army and/or an international force along the border. To rehabilitate deterrence. To imprint into the consciousness of Hizbullah. (Our generals love imprinting into consciousnesses. That is a wonderfully safe aim, because it cannot be measured.)
THE MORE the nice little war continues, the clearer it becomes that these changing aims are not realistic. The Lebanese ruling group does not represent anybody but a small, rich and corrupt elite. The Lebanese army cannot and will not fight Hizbullah. The new "security zone" will be exposed to guerilla attacks and the international force will not enter the area without the agreement of Hizbullah. And this guerilla force, Hizbullah, the Israeli army cannot vanquish.
That is nothing to be ashamed of. Our army is in good - or, rather, bad - company. The term "guerilla" ("small war") was coined in Spain, during the occupation of the country by Napoleon. Irregular bands of Spanish fighters attacked the occupiers and beat them. The same happened to the Russians in Afghanistan, to the French in Algeria, to the British in Palestine and a dozen other colonies, to the Americans in Vietnam, and is happening to them now in Iraq. Even assuming that Dan Halutz and Udi Adam are greater commanders than Napoleon and his marshals, they will not succeed where those failed.
When Napoleon did not know what to do next, he invaded Russia. If we don't stop the operation, it will lead us to war with Syria.
Condoleezza Rice's stubborn struggle against any attempt to stop the war shows that this is indeed the aim of the United States. From the first day of George Bush's presidency, the neo-cons have been calling for the elimination of Syria. The deeper Bush sinks into the Iraqi quagmire, the more he needs to divert attention with another adventure.
By the way: One day before the outbreak of this war, our Minister of National Infrastructures, Binyamin Ben-Eliezer, took part in the inauguration ceremony of the big pipeline that will conduct oil from the huge Caspian Sea reserves to the Turkish port of Ceyhan, just next to the Syrian border. The Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline avoids Russia and passes through Azerbaijan and Georgia, two countries closely aligned with Israel, like Turkey itself. There is a plan to bring a part of the oil from there along the Syrian and Lebanese coast to Ashkelon, where an existing pipeline will conduct it to Eilat, to be exported to the Far East. Israel and Turkey are to secure the area for the United States.
MUST THE sliding into a war with Syria happen? Is there no alternative?
Of course there is. To stop now, at once.
When President Lyndon Johnson felt that he was sinking into the morass of Vietnam, he asked his friends for advice. One of them answered with five words: "Declare victory and get out!"
We can do that. To stop investing more and more in a losing business. To be satisfied with what we can get now. For example: an agreement that will move Hizbullah a few kilometers from the border, along which an international force and/or the Lebanese army will be deployed, and to exchange prisoners. Olmert will be able to present that as a great victory, to claim that we have got what we wanted, that we have taught the Arabs a lesson, that anyhow we had no intention of achieving more. Nasrallah will also claim a great victory, asserting that he has taught the Zionist Enemy a lesson it will not forget, that Hizbullah remains alive, strong and armed, that he has brought back the Lebanese prisoners.
True, it will not be much. But that is what can be done to cut losses, as they say in the business world.
That can happen. If Olmert is clever enough to extricate himself from the trap, before it closes entirely. (As folk wisdom says: a clever person is one that gets out of a trap that a wise one would not have got into in the first place.) And if Condoleezza gets orders from her boss to allow it.
ON THE 17th day of the war , we must recognize that soon we will be faced with a clear choice: to slide into a war with Syria, intentionally or unintentionally, or to get a general agreement in the North, that will necessarily involve also Hizbullah and Syria. At the center of such an agreement will be the Golan Heights.
Olmert and Peretz did not think about that in those intoxicating moments on July 12, when they jumped at the opportunity to start a nice little war. But then, were they thinking at all?

[davetlv]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

dig, am well aware of whatreallyhappened site, if thats where you are getting your information from i pity you.

IUt brings together a vile group of far right supremicists and suprisingly left wing conspiracy theorist, but most of what they produce isw pure fantasy.

Fact, HIzbollah sent barrage of rockets into northern israeli settlements, crossed the blue line, attacked soldiers, killed a number and abducted two.

The only people who say otherwise are those that get their news from Iran.

[dig72]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

[quote]

dig, am well aware of whatreallyhappened site, if thats where you are getting your information from i pity you.

I don't need your pity dave, civil conversation will do just fine thanks.

The only people who say otherwise are those that get their news from Iran

Yeah, ok.


Well please point to me to your exclusive source of information suggesting otherwise.

[davetlv]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

I dont have exclusive sources of information. . . . if you read the main news suplliers (BBC, CNN, Rueters, AP, NYTimes, Guardian) and then read Haaretz you get more or less a true picture of what went on.

One thing they all have in common is the fact that they acknowledge, as do the UN and the G8, that Hizbollah crossed the Blue Line and attacked Israeli soldiers on Israeli soverign territory. . . .it aint rocket science dude!

[Bululu]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

Thank you ISREAL again for surgical precise attacks against these littel kids today , 37 dead children and counting, Terrorists.

[davetlv]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

Thank you ISREAL again for surgical precise attacks against these littel kids today , 37 dead children and counting, Terrorists.

And thank you Hizbollah for making them targets.



The text that goes with the photos .........

[Bululu]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

I reapt it your army are bunch of terrorists.

[davetlv]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

No, the terrorist are the ones who are firing hundreds of rockets a day into my country and hiding themselves and their weapons amongst the innocent lebanese civillian populations.