Is it really over religion?

**thesightless** · August 10, 2006, 10:41:16 AM

Re: Is it really over religion?

maybe i can offer a rough overview of why the answer is yes. even within the muslim world.
i am leaving a lot of facts about small things and overviewing a few hundred years..

after the initial rise of islam due west of what we currently consider iran, when it was persia, the king of persia at the time, who had already declared the official religion to be zoroastrian (remember them? they have been nearly eradicatred thanks to the ROP), but also allowed for every religion(its a tenant of zoro). after the violence began with the spread of the islamic tribes into the western regions of the middle east, and down into the penninsula, the king of persia, dispersed a lot of the tribes and it has essentially become a power struggle within each sect... fighting for land, power, and the right to control others.

give a run over to wiki or a library and see if you can look up what happened to the tribes after their initial dispersment from the persian kingdom, i think the time frame would be around the period before the 2nd and 3rd crusade and the muslim expansion. (maybe 400 ad or so)

again, i severly generalized the above. so read up more. but that is the general idea.

**malayday** · August 11, 2006, 10:12:36 PM

Re: Is it really over religion?

its nationalism....its not religion driving these people... half of them arent even religious in the real sense...

**dohturdima** · August 12, 2006, 12:05:09 AM

Re: Is it really over religion?

Originally posted by malayday

its nationalism....its not religion driving these people... half of them arent even religious in the real sense...

Uh-huh... It's just a coincidence that every suicide bomber to date has been a muslim. You don't see members of IRA, FARC or Basque Separatists blowing themselves up for a cause. Nationalism, indeed.

**Localizer** · August 12, 2006, 04:51:24 AM

Re: Is it really over religion?

Originally posted by dohturdima

Uh-huh... It's just a coincidence that every suicide bomber to date has been a muslim. You don't see members of IRA, FARC or Basque Separatists blowing themselves up for a cause. Nationalism, indeed.

No, but you do see them take over theatres and schools as was such in Russia and Ireland. Regardless, it's not nationalism. It's not religion either. It's people that are lost and coaxed into thinking they are fighting for religion, but in the end, it's always political. Iran is the powerhouse behind this...

**dohturdima** · August 12, 2006, 09:58:16 AM

Re: Is it really over religion?

Originally posted by Localizer

No, but you do see them take over theatres and schools as was such in Russia and Ireland. Regardless, it's not nationalism. It's not religion either. It's people that are lost and coaxed into thinking they are fighting for religion, but in the end, it's always political. Iran is the powerhouse behind this...

I meant the methods of achieving the aim, not just the aim itself. Suicide bombers are muslim. No other group can claim to be using this method of achieving their aims, whatever they may be - ultimately, the aim is power. And these days, most other groups are focusing on their local conflicts (are scaling back their operations, becoming a part of the political process), while muslim groups operate on a world-wide scale, have a lot of internal/external funding, often use indigenious population that identifies itself as muslim first and whatever-nation-I-am-living-in last, and are expanding their operations whenever they can.

**superdave** · August 12, 2006, 10:53:11 AM

Re: Is it really over religion?

Originally posted by speciale

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14279544/from/RS.1/

I just don't get it anymore. What cause are the suicide bombers dying for? They are killing other muslims.

From what I read, it was Sunnis vs Shia's which would be about religion.

**Bululu** · August 13, 2006, 06:49:01 PM

Re: Is it really over religion?

dohturdima I think you have never heard about the Japensse Kamikazes during WWII and never heard about the Tamil fighters in Srilanka and , and , and , and....

**KinKyJ** · August 16, 2006, 05:46:25 AM

Re: Is it really over religion?

Originally posted by dohturdima

Uh-huh... It's just a coincidence that every suicide bomber to date has been a muslim. You don't see members of IRA, FARC or Basque Separatists blowing themselves up for a cause. Nationalism, indeed.

Bollocks. Both nationalism and religion are just means to rally people. Imo it's just power and money.

As for suicide bombers:
- Suicide is a sin for a muslim
- Killing a fellow muslim is a sin as well

Go figure...

**speciale** · August 16, 2006, 08:10:23 AM

Re: Is it really over religion?

Originally posted by KinKyJ

Bollocks. Both nationalism and religion are just means to rally people. Imo it's just power and money.

I couldn't agree more with you. You know how they can tell the difference between a Shite and Sunni? They can't. They have to use an id card that states which one they are.

**thesightless** · August 16, 2006, 04:59:48 PM

Re: Is it really over religion?

stupidity has bred too many people over there. that is obvious.

**KinKyJ** · August 16, 2006, 06:01:03 PM

Re: Is it really over religion?

Originally posted by speciale

I couldn't agree more with you. You know how they can tell the difference between a Shite and Sunni? They can't. They have to use an id card that states which one they are.

They can't and they don't have to because the difference doesn't matter at all. The only question they ask is: "Are you a fundamentalist or not? Not? Then we don't care whether you're a muslim, a christian, jew or even a martian."

Just read here what the deal is: http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/

@ sean: yup, stupidity is one of the reasons why fundamentalists have that many followers. Stupidity and poverty. How do you keep a nation under your thumb? By keeping them dumb, afraid and hungry. It's as simple as that.

Come to think of it, isn't that what Bush has been doing during the past years as well? Keeping US citizens un/misinformed, afraid (of WMD in Iraq eg) and hungry (consumptionwise that is)?

**thesightless** · August 16, 2006, 09:59:13 PM

Re: Is it really over religion?

all it has become is a power struggle over islam itself with the clerics. you have each cleric with a stake in a local region trying to exert his interpretation upon others. i say this because i have spoken with people from iraq, and pakistan (clients) and they both agree. while religion is fueling it, it is a power struggle until the religion can organizwe itself on a worldwide scale, much like the majority of the christian religions and the jewish rabbis.

**malayday** · August 19, 2006, 07:57:44 AM

Re: Is it really over religion?

sure

**malayday** · August 19, 2006, 07:58:01 AM

Re: Is it really over religion?

sure its might be about power..but this shit that these doods are

Is it really over religion?

Is it really over religion?

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