Don't have a good source on it, but I've heard rumblings that Bush will be subpoenaed this afternoon in one of the NSA wiretap class cases. Let the wrangling begin.
Bush Subpoenaed
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Re: Bush Subpoenaed
should be at least worth a couple of laughs, or a big fuckup in terms of they may actually ahve intelligence that is worthy and now it will be thrown out, cuz either way, public sentiment and mass media marketing to the stupid people in this country make it sound a lot worse than it is. like i said, show me one person affected by it. there arent.your life is an occasion, rise to it.
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Re: Bush Subpoenaed
short version.
bush, under the patriot act guise, and then under his own discretion, authorized wiretaps without legal warrents. people find this objectable within the USA b/c other than this, you have must obtain a warrent from a judge with jurisdiction to wire tap. it has been back and forth in the courts for awhile. its a mountain looking molehill. it hasnt actually affected anyone, but in principle, it is against our domestic laws.
personally, i dont care, they are only tapping ppl who call the middle eastern countries with terror ties.your life is an occasion, rise to it.
Join My Chant. new mix. april 09. dirty fuck house.
download that. deep shit listed there
my dick is its own superhero.Comment
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Re: Bush Subpoenaed
short version.
bush, under the patriot act guise, and then under his own discretion, authorized wiretaps without legal warrents. people find this objectable within the USA b/c other than this, you have must obtain a warrent from a judge with jurisdiction to wire tap. it has been back and forth in the courts for awhile. its a mountain looking molehill. it hasnt actually affected anyone, but in principle, it is against our domestic laws.
personally, i dont care, they are only tapping ppl who call the middle eastern countries with terror ties.
In a general sense, we are protected from unreasonable search and seizure. As it pertains to the issue before us, Courts have determined that that means that the government may not tap our phones without first obtaining a warrant by demonstratiing there is probable cause to do so. It bears mention that there is a special court that was set up years ago to handle warrants on an emergency/secret basis when going to the courthouse to get a warrant would risk disclosing the search, and even to get the warrant after the fact if there is a reason that waiting for a court to issue a warrant would be impracticable (e.g., suspect is about to engage in suspicious communication but running to the courthouse would take too long and the opportunity would be missed).
With this framework in mind, there are basically two things at issue:
1. Bush authorized the NSA to conduct wire taps of people, including US citizens, without first obtaining a warrant, or ever obtaining a warrant for that matter. The Pres said he was only tapping international calls of suspected terrorists, but there's no oversight, so who knows what's really going on.
2. Bush authorized the NSA to catalog the telephone records of millions of Americans as a matter of course who are not suspected of any crime or improper activity. The records did not contain content of the call, just the number called, time of day, duration of call, etc. Details are a bit sketchy, but the long and short of it is that if you're an American and you use certain carriers, the government probably has a record of your telephone conversations over the last few years.
The common refrain from guys like sightless is, "who cares, I'm not doing anything wrong, I have nothing to hide." Oddly, the people that seem to be defending this the most are the same people that purport to want small government and want government out of their lives, which has always struck me as incredibly ironic. Some of us aren't that trusting of our government. It bothers me on a fundamental level to think that the President feels like this whole warrant application thing doesn't apply to him, and that "because I think it's a good idea" is justification for anything he wants to do. That's scary, IMO, especially with an idiot like Bush at the helm.
He needs to be snapped back to reality. This litigation is a good way to do just that -- or it would be, if he recognized the courts as an independent and equal branch of government...Comment
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Re: Bush Subpoenaed
im not a proponent/opponent. i just dont care anymore. these last two government's have sickened me. im just planning on getting by until i can retire to puerto rico.
oh yeah, i avoided the legal talk.your life is an occasion, rise to it.
Join My Chant. new mix. april 09. dirty fuck house.
download that. deep shit listed there
my dick is its own superhero.Comment
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Re: Bush Subpoenaed
Thanks for the clarification guys.
Well, we had a similar discussion in Belgium during the 70's - 80's when the CCC (a extreme left terrorist group) carried out a number of bombings in our cities. The general conclusion was that wire tappings can only be allowed if there's a warrant. Basta.
My opinion: it doesn't matter whether you have a clean slate and nothing to hide. No government has the right to deprive its citizens of fundamental liberties and basic rights. Not even to counter a threat. Why? Because it's the first step towards dictatorship.
@ sean: once someone said that it's only when people stop caring that democracy as we know it is in danger.Comment
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Re: Bush Subpoenaed
i was like that all my life, but 5 years ago i watched it from 15 blocks away. and after all the arguing within my gov't i dont even care anymore. it doesnt affect me. its just my opinion, if they will go to that extreme to find out i smoke pot, ill save the taxpayers money and smoke a joint on the police precint's front lawn.your life is an occasion, rise to it.
Join My Chant. new mix. april 09. dirty fuck house.
download that. deep shit listed there
my dick is its own superhero.Comment
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Re: Bush Subpoenaed
Bush Grants Self Permission To Grant More Power To Self
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Re: Bush Subpoenaed
i was like that all my life, but 5 years ago i watched it from 15 blocks away. and after all the arguing within my gov't i dont even care anymore. it doesnt affect me. its just my opinion, if they will go to that extreme to find out i smoke pot, ill save the taxpayers money and smoke a joint on the police precint's front lawn.
If you think this is never going to happen, then I've got one word for you: McCarthyism.Comment
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