All in Perspective

[picklemonkey]

Re: All in Perspective

you can butter it up with anything you want and it is still the best guess they can come up with. I do a lot of research on various things that concern the universe and evolution etc. Certain aspects of science deal with fact but much of what we know about the universe is guesswork. I do not say that out of an opinion, it is just the way the science works.

that's also the way religion works.

It is only guess work to those who guess at it. Without getting into a great debate again I assure you the evidence is overwheling in favor of God creating, than it is for evolution.

I can provide facts at the drop of a hat to anyone interested.

ditto to astronomy

[Kamal]

Re: All in Perspective

how come there is proof of life on other planets?

more importantly, why did God CHOOSE to put life on THIS planet alone ? Was Jupiter being naughty in Gym Class ?

[cowardly dj]

Re: All in Perspective

Kamal, the events may be unrelated in action but are absolutely related in concept. It is called an anology. Taking one event and using it to describe another.

You have a telescope pointed at a star billions of miles away. You have a computer program designed by man using man-made equations/parameters to equate the size of something no one has ever seen and can not imagine as there is nothing to compare it to. The simple fact of it all is that it relies on man for its parameters.

Man is not know for his humility. Man has a tendency to be wrong and never admit it to even himself. Man is the only creature that is capable of lying and even believing its own lies to the point of thinking they are absolute truths. If you think I am going to rely on a program scientists designed to measure something they want to know the size of using their own parameters and call it fact then I humbly bow out. The scientist could be wrong by 7 billion miles in diameter and never even know it. There have no way of making it fact as there has never been a physical measurement taken.

Science says it is based on tangible provable facts right? Well to me tangible provable facts is taking a basketball and measuring it physically. It is guess work when a person designs a program to measure something never seen. Too many opportunities for man to make a mistake.

[thesightless]

Re: All in Perspective

and why do non christians prosper in life? wouldnt all non belieiving people suffer misfortune like the old testament said?

[Kamal]

Re: All in Perspective

Man is not know for his humility. Man has a tendency to be wrong and never admit it to even himself. Man is the only creature that is capable of lying and even believing its own lies to the point of thinking they are absolute truths.

and you're proving that point BRILLIANTLY with your ignorance towards science.

Kamal, the events may be unrelated in action but are absolutely related in concept. It is called an anology. Taking one event and using it to describe another.

You have a telescope pointed at a star billions of miles away. You have a computer program designed by man using man-made equations/parameters to equate the size of something no one has ever seen and can not imagine as there is nothing to compare it to. The simple fact of it all is that it relies on man for its parameters.

Thanks for the english lesson but I think you forget we're on Astronomy. You are right in that a distant object in space moving and emitting light at the same time will probably end up and land somewhere else. But we're talking about stars that emit light all around and NOT the retarded straight line path of a bullet.

BOTTOM LINE is that the light DOES reach here, whether its come in a straight line or its been displaced over the billion miles and calculations are made BASED on the end journey of the light.

Based on your own response of the bullet and light being offset, the arguement is NOT WHERE the light/bullet will land if the source is OFF but the fact that its landed SOMEWHERE, where they can be evaluated and mathematical calculations be made. Is that simple enough yet ??

Secondly, before any experiment becomes acceptable in science, scientists first test the validity of such experiments on earth by mimicking experiments they use in deep space, within controlled laboratory conditions to come as close as possible to the real event.

Do you think that 1 scientist simply comes up with a mathemetical arguement and the whole scientific community just sits in their seats and accepts the proof of concept ? There's more ridicule in the scientific community than there is even in religion. It takes way more than a few nods for scientific arguements to become generally acceptable principles.

Boss do a search on the mission of sending Galileo (iirc) to Titan to measure for water and tell me GOD and RELIGION had anything to do with the scientists timing the path of the satellite BETWEEN the rings of Saturn. That is a PROVEN and DOCUMENTED EVENT. Now you tell me, if the calculations for this event based on light being displaced are actually so OFF, would they have completed the journey through the rings of Saturn and onward to crash land the robot onto Titan ?

[cowardly dj]

Re: All in Perspective

To put some of the comments about religion in perspective, I for years thought that believing in God was blind faith. Most religious people can not even tell you why they believe in God. Most people say "I just do" I am sure we can all agree on that?

Up until about 2 years ago I would have said the same thing. Understanding the Bible and therefore God takes effort on the persons part. It is not based on blind faith. We can know that God exists. There are facts that are available to those who diligently study the Bible. You can not just read it and think that it is gong to come to you. If learning anything for a human what that easy then we would have no need for schools. We could just read our math books and understand it. You must study it.

The Bible is set up (i hate to use this but it is all i can think of) like a puzzle. You have to look through the pieces and put them together to get the big picture. It is not hard it just takes effort.

Most people do not take the time to understand the Bible. That is why you have so many different views on what one verse means over another. When God wrote the Bible he made it clear. It is man who has distorted its meaning over time.

If you base your belief in God on what another person says then you are limiting your own mind to the possibility of His existence. People are opinionated and full of their own pride. That is the biggest problem with trying to explain God to people. It is their own pride that gets in the way and distorts their perspective and does not allow them to accept the fact that they could have been wrong in not believing He exists. It is not a lack of evidence.

I can provide facts about God's existence all day long but a person will not accept it because they are taking preconcieved concepts to the table. God's existence can be proven just not to some people.

[thesightless]

Re: All in Perspective

but every fact you provide to ensure us of god's existence is easily disproven with basic logic, physics, chemistry, biology

[cowardly dj]

Re: All in Perspective

and why do non christians prosper in life? wouldnt all non belieiving people suffer misfortune like the old testament said?

not sure what you refer to here

I know many christians that prosper

My best answer here is that all people suffer misfortune just not the same misfortune.
Abraham of the Old Testament was an extremely wealthy man..extremely. Yet he is spoken of throught out the Old and New Testament as a man of great faith. Fortune does not dictate faith or vise versa.

I am not sure if that answers your question.

[picklemonkey]

Re: All in Perspective

2 words:

• Scientology
• Mormons

CDJ... discuss.

[thesightless]

Re: All in Perspective

it doesnt. if god existed, then why hasnt NYC suffered like soddom. trust me, i know for a fact that we do shit a lot worse than they did.

dude, i went to catholic school my entire pre collegiate life. st. ignatius in hicksville NY and Chaminade HS in mineola NY. i know the religion back and forth. but i realize that what religion calls a soul and mind is nothing more than a chemical reaction within the brain. reactions based on other chimcal reactions that come from the eyes, ears, nose, and skin.

[cowardly dj]

Re: All in Perspective

but every fact you provide to ensure us of god's existence is easily disproven with basic logic, physics, chemistry, biology

Lets try that! Use basic logic, physics,chemistry to disprove this.

And God said, Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together unto one place Genesis 1:9

When you look at a map or globe you see that all the oceans are connected (gathered into one place). Genesis was written 1446 BC. The first circumnavigation of the globe was led by Ferdinand Magellan, who was born in Oporto, Portugal in 1480.

Seems Moses knew that long before anyone else did.

To understand why Moses knew that, you should have a basic understanding of how the Bible was written. Here is a quick rundown: God used the Holy Spirit to guide the writers of the Bible. God authored it and man just wrote down what God told them to write. I can go more in depth with that if needed.


I assure you Moses had no way to circumnavigate the planet.

[Kamal]

Re: All in Perspective

Have you considered the POSSIBILITY that god could be the image of an advanced civilization (a billion years ahead of us in their technology) where they can alter everything around them based on thought ..... and we as an insignificant race of living beings and limited understanding accepts that as proof of God (which is also a word created by the depths of our limitations as was the Bible written in the same conditions?)

[Lorn]

Re: All in Perspective

Please pass the popcorn...this is getting good.

[cowardly dj]

Re: All in Perspective

it doesnt. if god existed, then why hasnt NYC suffered like soddom. trust me, i know for a fact that we do shit a lot worse than they did.

Well, look at Katrina. It wasted NO, and NO is know for its loose society and its embrace for the homosexual community. Just because NY has not fallen does not mean that it wont ever fall. Just because you do not see brimstone and fire does not mean that God is not exacting his vengence in other ways.

dude, i went to catholic school my entire pre collegiate life. st. ignatius in hicksville NY and Chaminade HS in mineola NY. i know the religion back and forth. but i realize that what religion calls a soul and mind is nothing more than a chemical reaction within the brain. reactions based on other chimcal reactions that come from the eyes, ears, nose, and skin.

Please do not take this as a personal attack on you but I assure you that the Catholics are about as far from the truth of Gods word as any religion can be. As usual I can use the Bible to make that point more clear if needed.

[BSully828]

Re: All in Perspective

When God wrote the Bible he made it clear. It is man who has distorted its meaning over time.

But God did not write the Bible, man did.

The Bible did not fall from heaven as a complete text - it was compiled, edited, written and rewritten over the course of centuries. Then it was translated into a myriad of different languages, passed throughout the world where it would again be edited, written and rewritten. Hand written, mind you, by cloistered men in dark rooms with tired eyes. With that many hands in the pot, I'd say there's just as much margin for error in the Bible as there is in astronomy.

And if you argue that God inspired man to write the Bible - making him a kind of indirect co-author - then why were there so many version of the Bible in the early years of the Christian faith? The majority of Christ's followers couldn't even agree which gospels should make up the official Christian canon until the 3rd Century, and even then it took the Council of Nicea, a political body made up of bishops and advisors, to come to a final ruling.

Edit: Your post went up before I finished this, so I missed:

To understand why Moses knew that, you should have a basic understanding of how the Bible was written. Here is a quick rundown: God used the Holy Spirit to guide the writers of the Bible. God authored it and man just wrote down what God told them to write. I can go more in depth with that if needed.

My original question still stands though.