All in Perspective

[cowardly dj]

Re: All in Perspective

ugh, i don't know why anyone even bothers to respond to this guy...he seems to want to take everything known in the scientific world and through some convoluted argument try and show how its inaccurate...therefore only God and religion are correct.

just ignore him.

it is called a conversation.

[BSully828]

Re: All in Perspective

I am not sure where you are getting that information but is is very inaccurate. There was no council that decided what was or was not scripture.

Quick read up on the Council of Nicea can be found here. There were multiple Councils in fact, but the first was the most important. One of the main issues delt with at that meeting was whether or not Jesus was the same as God - not the son of God, but the actual physical embodiment of God on Earth. That may seem like an easy distinction to a modern Christian, but in 325 AD it was the cause of a major rift among believers. One large enough that the powers that be felt it needed to be resolved.

Later Councils were brought together to decide which gospels should or should not be included in the Bible that was to be recognized by the Church. Some of the more popular gospels - such as The Gospel of Thomas, Gospel of Mary, and Gospel of Enoch - were read and studied by believers all across the Christian world at the time. Those same powers that be came to the decision that these would be excluded from the official version and off to the recesses of history they went.

Check out Masks of God: Occidental Mythology by Joseph Campbell for a much better description of what went on during this time.

These two versions were a translation NOT a transliteration. The difference being a translation is from one language to another. A transliteration is a translation with the translator attempting to decipher what they thought the original text was trying to say.

There's a problem with that explanation though - languages do not translate perfectly to other languages. Different tenses, different usages, different words altogether make for a 1:1 correspondence between languages to be impossible. Try reading a sentence in English exactly as it is written in (say) spanish, or french, or japanese - it doesn't work. Now try reading a sentence in English exactly as it is written in a language whose dialect hasn't been used in almost 2000 years. See my point?

Unless you are able to speak the language that the original Bible was written in, then you are subject to a flawed version of this "perfect" work. You are at the mercy of someone else's attempt to translate that which is nothing more than a collection of symbols to you and I. Again - lots of margin for error in there.

[day_for_night]

Re: All in Perspective

it is called a conversation.

its only called a conversation when both sides listen to each other. you don't listen to reason there sparky, you only hear what you want to.

[thesightless]

Re: All in Perspective

It is the one church that is the pure and undefiled truth of Gods word.

thats what EVERY religious sect from every religion says.

how do you factor in Zoroastrianism and Judiaism, both organized religions, that existed ages before ~180 AD when the church ordered the various texts to be organized into what we call the new testament. are they bunk? are catholics, baptists, episcopalians, mormons all wrong? they view you as wrong. all major current day religions are askewed views based upon the zoroastrian beleifs of good vs evil in human behaviour and assigned fictional personalities to give people hope and fear.

and plz, give us a concrete example of god's presence. something that is real, viewable, can be proven by fact repetitively.

im not here to trash religion, go look at my prior posts, it does a lot of good in the world and gives a few billion hope for something good. but in reality, it has been disproven with every scientific advance humans have made.

[cowardly dj]

Re: All in Perspective

its only called a conversation when both sides listen to each other. you don't listen to reason there sparky, you only hear what you want to.

So if I understand what you are saying then the side of science is reason and the side of God is not reason and I am being unreasonable because I am not accepting science's side of the story as reason?

Hmmmmm.

[cowardly dj]

Re: All in Perspective

thats what EVERY religious sect from every religion says.

how do you factor in Zoroastrianism and Judiaism, both organized religions, that existed ages before ~180 AD when the church ordered the various texts to be organized into what we call the new testament. are they bunk? are catholics, baptists, episcopalians, mormons all wrong? they view you as wrong. all major current day religions are askewed views based upon the zoroastrian beleifs of good vs evil in human behaviour and assigned fictional personalities to give people hope and fear.

and plz, give us a concrete example of god's presence. something that is real, viewable, can be proven by fact repetitively.

1. the answer the Bible gives to all the other religions being wrong is yes. However it would take more time than I bet you are willing to give for me to show that to you, howbeit I could and you would understand it just as easily as it is written in the Bible. Not that you would believe in God after but you would understand why all the other religions that have come are not the church that Christ purchased with his blood.

2. what is concrete evidence to you?

[thesightless]

Re: All in Perspective

concrete evidence is something that can be examined, studied, looked at, and backed up. every beleif in church is a blind idea, with no evidence.

what evidence proves that we were created in 6 days?
what evidence proves that Jesus was god, not just another prophet as the other 2 major religions view him.
what evidence does chritianity give us that mohammed wasnt the true prophet?


how would you, if given the oppurtunity, come to my house and prove beyond a reasonable doubt, that we have a soul, that the stories in the Bible are true, that the universe was created in 6 days?

thats the thing, you cant, no one can, and that is why faith is faith and not fact.

[cowardly dj]

Re: All in Perspective

but faith cannot be proven, its believed without fact. that why it is called faith. it is a belief in the unknown.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, a conviction of things not seen

Let me put that into an example that is tangible for you.

Faith is not limited to the religious realm. I have never seen the soil of Italy. Does that mean that it does not exist? Not so. I have faith that it exist based on the testament of others who have been there. Is that a blind faith just because I can not/have not seen Italy? I am "convinced" that Italy exists based on the evidence of things not seen.

Here is another one. You can not see, taste,hear, smell, or feel time. Do you doubt it exists? Of course not. There is evidence of its existence all around you. Death, grey hair, the time it takes to read this, I could go on and on.


Same goes for God. Just because I can not see him does not mean He is not there. I see the evidence of His works and know he exists.

Faith in God is no where near a blind faith

[thesightless]

Re: All in Perspective

ok, lemee re-frase this. so i dont get biblical quotes.

if you had every tool imaginable for geological survey and study, AND, the tools to examine space as we have today, how do you disprove the fact the earth was a result of a large explosion of elements and a few million years of gravity and rotation around the suns sphere of influence.

then, using everything that, lets say Cornell medical center, has, how are you going to deny that human evolved from what we have named primates. i know for a fact that when you examine the DNA proteins it shows that we share a lot of DNA, and this can done for ANY human being and ANY primate.

[cowardly dj]

Re: All in Perspective

thesightless, I enjoyed the conversation and I appreciate you keeping it civilized and not disrespecting me as many have done in the past as you well know.

I enjoy debating and am always willing to answer any questions.

I am off to bed but I will be back on tomorrow to answer any questions anyone has. Perhaps there shoudl be a "the [ms] ask a religious guy thread"

[thesightless]

Re: All in Perspective

hey, i am in the boat of being pro religion in general. it is a wonderful idea that i have witnessed personally affecting peoples lives. but faith is faith and fact is fact. it is simply a reason for us to wait for better things and hope that there is something more than the 80 or so years that our bodies are capable of living.

[picklemonkey]

Re: All in Perspective

To understand why Moses knew that, you should have a basic understanding of how the Bible was written. Here is a quick rundown: God used the Holy Spirit to guide the writers of the Bible. God authored it and man just wrote down what God told them to write.

just like God told the Christians that the Garden of Eden was in the Middle East, but he told the Mormons that it was in Missouri. Apparently God is a liar?



Here's a true statement proven by Science: Middle East does not equal Missouri

[thesightless]

Re: All in Perspective

lol....

i finally figure out a way to ask the question without getting a biblical analogy and he hits the sack.

[Lorn]

Re: All in Perspective

lol....

i finally figure out a way to ask the question without getting a biblical analogy and he hits the sack.

lol...that is funny.

[day_for_night]

Re: All in Perspective

So if I understand what you are saying then the side of science is reason and the side of God is not reason and I am being unreasonable because I am not accepting science's side of the story as reason?

Hmmmmm.

no no, don't twist my words. I said you don't listen to valid points from other people. you argue your views, but ignore anything you don't have an answer for. its called selective hearing, or in this case, reading.