Pataky Pal does exist

[speciale]

Re: God does exist

sorry, I thought this was the non-sense thread

[hulkhuss]

Re: God does exist

sorry, I thought this was the non-sense thread

i thought we all signed up for a religious debate class

[Kobe]

Re: God does exist

This is all so familiar...

What's the over/under on CDJ theatening to leave the forum and/or just disappearing once again?

I'm in for 4 days.

[speciale]

Re: God does exist

I'll take 3

[toasty]

Re: God does exist

First we need to establish some facts and go from there.
etc., etc.

Dude, let me begin by telling you where I'm coming from. My father is a minister, I was brought up in a religious household and -- although I suspect that my impression of what God is differs from yours -- I do believe in a higher power of sorts to the extent that I don't believe that things in the universe occur purely at random, that there is a guiding force of sorts. I wish you no ill will.

Setting that aside for a moment, however, as a person who makes his living dissecting arguments and following lines of logic, I read posts like your last one and it just makes my brain hurt. Looking at your argument from a purely objective, antiseptic standpoint, you manage to pack an alarming number of logical fallacies into your post. Straw men, false dichotomies, equating correllation and causation, etc. The conclusions simply do not logically follow from the arguments.

I don't have time to go through it in detail, but you really ought to go back and take a good hard look at it, because as it stands, it's a logical trainwreck...

[thesightless]

Re: God does exist

add in the fact that the hubble telescope has allowed us to witness a big bang, we can loook out there and see planets forming, and you can carbon date things back millions and milllions of years.

im just waiting for the line ''ok, you cant prove god is real, with any validiity, it doesnt hurt to have faith"

personally, i beleive in god, but you cant tell me that there is proof when all the proof denies the existence of the occurrences in the bible.

[threehills]

Re: God does exist

Lets examine why people do not like God for a minute and I am willing to guess that you and many others here will fall into this category. God says do not drink alcohol. People like to drink alcohol so if they were to follow God they would have to give that up. God says do not use profane language. People like to use profanity in their everyday conversations to express their thoughts make jokes etc. People who follow God have to give that up also. How about drugs, dancing, and even promiscuity. That is the biggest problem people have with God. If you follow God you are to have one partner for life. Lets face it, people are not willing to give things up to follow God. Simply put God has rules and prohibitions and most people are tired of rules and prohibitions so they dismiss any and everything about God to ease their conscious. You have rules in your life every second of it and it does get to be tiresome. Do this, dont do that, go here, take this, stop that and whatever you would like to add here.

Personally, I really don't have a problem with God, I have a problem with the Catholic Church. But actually I do have a beef with God. I would be willing to live by Gods rules if god is willing to prove he exists. And by proof I mean beyond a shawdow of a doubt, stone cold, solid as a rock proof.

And as to you first piece of "evidence". My chemistry text book says claims that Zn + HCl --> ZnCl2 + H2. But I don't have to take the books word for it. I can prove it for myself. I can do the reation, see the product, feel it in my hand, smell the gasses produced. Science asks nothing of me. It does not ask me to have trust that the textbook is correct. It says, "come, see for yourself". Once God can do that, I'll start believing.

[Morgan]

Re: God does exist

According to the Bible there are many Gods. The Christian-Jewish version demanded that He should be the only God, He smote many people was generally mean to lots of people in the Old testement, therefore I would not be interested in learning if He exsists or not.

Can we now talk about how God approves of incest? I.e Lot and his daughters, should i follow His instructions and sleep with my sister?

[Morgan]

Re: God does exist

I have to say, i agree with it, 100%. I am a slave to the one and only god, the creator of the Heavens and the Earth, and all things good. Repent, for you are all worshiping evil idols and must convert your evil ways! I want to help you, Hell is not a good place to go, if i could only give you one peice of advice, READ THE BIBLE*. It is not a boring book, its a guide to life. Study it, go to church, spread the gospel! A life in Hell is worse than anything you've ever imagined, don't go there, belive in Christ**.

insert as required
* KORAN/Generic Holy Book/BIBLE
**Mohammed/Budda/Generic Religious Leader

[cowardly dj]

Re: God does exist

Everyone has the right to expect the Bible, claiming to be inspired of God, to contain accurate scientific evidence.

If you have not read my earlier post about the Bible's self claims for authenticity and inspiration from God the now is a good time to turn a few pages back and give it a read. If the Bible's claims of being divinely and supernaturally inspired then there must be evidence in it's pages.

The Bible has many scientifically accurate statements that are called scientific foreknowledge.

Scientific foreknowledge can be defined as the statement of a scientific fact at a certain time and place by someone who could not possibly know of that fact without receiving special (in this case supernatural) revelation (in this case from God)

"Many scientific facts, which prove the infallability of Scripture, are tucked away in its pages. These proofs are given in nonscientific language; nevertheless, they substantiate the claims of the authenticity of the Holy Scriptures...In some cases, scientific concepts have been known throug the ages, but these concepts are mentioned in a unique manner in Scripture. In other cases, scientific topicsahave been mentioned huindreds or even thousands of years before man discovered them (Jean S. Morton 1978 )

Having said that I will now use a scientific example in the Bible that was made thousands of years before science knew about it.

Genesis 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.


Genesis 8:2 the fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained;

Proverbs 8:28 When he made firm the skies above, When the fountains of the deep became strong,


Pay particularly close attention to the words in bold. The deep refers to the ocean then as it does today. So what ar fountains of the deep? Today they are called hydrothermal vents.


The first hydrothermal vent was discovered in 1977. They are known to exist in the Pacific and Atlantic oceans. Most are found at an average depth of about 2,100 meters (7,000 ft) in areas of seafloor spreading along the Mid-Ocean Ridge system? the underwater mountain chain that snakes its way around the globe.

A hydrothermal vent is a geyser on the seafloor.

here is a google search on the topic

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=hydrothermal+vents

So as you can see science and the Bible are not enemies as people claim they are. There is scientific evidence of the statement made in the Bible thousands of years before science knew anything of the sort.

It is a well known fact that there were no deep sea expeditions 3000+ years ago when Genesis and Proverbs were written. The Bible claims it is inspired by God. Science says it is not but you are left with the obvious question of how did the writers gain such a knowledge?

This is called evidence. It has been left by God to povide us with proof that substantiates our faith. As I have stated earlier, faith in God is not a blind faith.
There are several other scientific examples of foreknowledge in the Bible but this is a start.

Post your thoughts.

[thesightless]

Re: God does exist

wow. dude. as per yesterday, you know i aint here to rip ya. but who is your pastor? you should smack him for teaching you that.

OK, self sonfession here. i was a cathechist for 8 years. (christians will know wht this is)so i am heavily educated in the teachings. and i think toasty's pop will agree here
the fountains of the deep refer to an analogy for the influence that satan had on the earth until noah showed the self sacrifice to prove that we (human) were worthy for god's concern.

[cowardly dj]

Re: God does exist

Can we now talk about how God approves of incest? I.e Lot and his daughters, should i follow His instructions and sleep with my sister?

Please read that a bit more carefully. God did not tell Lot's daughters to do that they did it on their own free will. The reason it is mentioned is it gives the beginning of the line of Moabites and the children of Ammon. It is common place in ancient Hebrew to give the origin of the family.

Genesis 19: 30-38

[cowardly dj]

Re: God does exist

wow. dude. as per yesterday, you know i aint here to rip ya. but who is your pastor? you should smack him for teaching you that.

OK, self sonfession here. i was a cathechist for 8 years. (christians will know wht this is)so i am heavily educated in the teachings. and i think toasty's pop will agree here
the fountains of the deep refer to an analogy for the influence that satan had on the earth until noah showed the self sacrifice to prove that we (human) were worthy for god's concern.

Now in order to understand what the fountains of the deep are you have to take the context in which they are written in the Scripture. There is no mention of satan anywhere near before or after these verses. TBH I have no idea how anyone could even come up with that as the meaning. It simply could not be an analogy for satan.

Lets examine the Noah verse closely. You have to take the entire context of the subject to get the meaning. Lets add a few verses to the one to see what is meant here.


Gen 7:6 And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth.
Gen 7:7 And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.
Gen 7:8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of birds, and of everything that creepeth upon the ground,
Gen 7:9 there went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, male and female, as God commanded Noah.
Gen 7:10 And it came to pass after the seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.
Gen 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
Gen 7:12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
Gen 7:13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;
Gen 7:14 they, and every beast after its kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after its kind, and every bird after its kind, every bird of every sort.
Gen 7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh wherein is the breath of life.
Gen 7:16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God commanded him: and Jehovah shut him in.
Gen 7:17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lifted up above the earth.
Gen 7:18 And the waters prevailed, and increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.
Gen 7:19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high mountains that were under the whole heaven were covered.
Gen 7:20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.
Gen 7:21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both birds, and cattle, and beasts, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
Gen 7:22 all in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, of all that was on the dry land, died.

This is all about the water. There is no possible way it could have anything to do with an anology of satan.

[thesightless]

Re: God does exist

pine tree. im done.

its EVIL> they are referring to evil, bad things, not good, substitute anything referring to the opposite of what we think of good.

shit man, you really need to research judiaism and zoroastrianism. they were around LONG BEFORE any semblence of the word christ, and the foundations for EVERY religion in the world.


here i will TELL you how religion came along.

in ancient persia, people had behaviour problems and the smartest guy in the group decided to tell people that being good was better and would lead to better things. someone asked ''but, sir, what is good?'' after some thinking, the man said ''god is good'', then after a few hundred years of developing this theory, people created ideas and names for aspects of good vs evil, and the more people became organized and as some grew to gain a distaste for those in power, the churches became organized so that the powerful could utilize thier influence on the less powerful. rules were implemented into law because the churches were in charge at the time.

after about 2-3 thousand years, we sit here arguing about whose version of good vs evil is right, and everyone believes thiers is, simplt because, historically it fit thier lives, based primarily on geography and living styles. why else does christianity as a whole enjoy a more lavish, wealthy lifestyle than say, islam which was founded in harsh living conditions for people. and judiasm as well sports a less materialistic idea due primarily, imo, to the events the hebrew tribes had to endure back in the day.

[cowardly dj]

Re: God does exist

All I am saying sightless is that in the context presented there is absolutely no implication that the fountains of the deep is an anology for satan.

As so many of you have said, just because you say something is does not mean it is. If you say that it is an analogy for satan then perhaps you could show me how this is. I am absolutley willing to correct myself if I am wrong. I am always looking for the truth on any subject. If you know something I do not know about his then please shed some light on the situation.