Turkish membership of the EU?

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • KinKyJ
    Platinum Poser
    • Jun 2004
    • 13438

    Turkish membership of the EU?

    Turkey has been pushing for a long time to become a member of the EU. The formal application to join the European Community—the organisation that has since developed into the European Union—was made on April 14, 1987. Turkey was officially recognised as a candidate for membership on December 10, 1999 at the Helsinki summit of the European Council, having been an Associate Member since 1963. The negotiations have started on October 3, 2005, a process that is likely to take at least a decade to complete.

    Issues and problems regarding membership

    Their possible future accession is now the central controversy of the ongoing enlargement of the European Union. An overview of the issues at hand:

    - Differences in fundamental values and culture between a predominantly Muslim country (99.8% of the population) with current dominantly Christian and non-religious EU members, all of which are historically Christian.

    - The Turkish government's refusal to officially recognize the state of Cyprus, a current E.U. member, technically nullifies any negotiations and promises made between Turkey and the E.U., and is the greatest obstacle to Turkey's accession to the E.U., much before other issues.

    - Only 3% of Turkey's territory lies in geographical Europe. Furthermore, the Turkish capital is not in Europe, but, like the smaller member state Cyprus, in Asia. Turkey's membership would mean that the European Union's external borders would now reach Middle Eastern nations such as Syria, Iraq and Iran.

    - Turkey's large size and poverty. Turkey would upon accession represent an expansion almost equal in population to that of the 2004 Enlargement while the Turkish economy has been known for very unstable growth and sharp recessions despite some recent improvement. Many question whether the EU can support and "absorb" such a large and poor state, and many member states are wary of a potentially huge wave of poor Turkish immigration. (note: when Eastern European countries like Poland joined, some countries worried about immigration waves too. This was even the case in the early days of the united Europe when Portugal and Spain joined)

    - Turkey's large political power once in the Union. Its almost 70 million inhabitants will bestow it the second largest number of representatives in the European Parliament, after Germany. With the current rate of population increase some fear it might even surpass Germany by the time of accession; thus drastically altering make up of the European Parliament.

    - Many have continuing doubts on the commitment of the Turkish state to democracy and human rights, and its ability to reach European standards in these issues as gender equality, political freedom and minority rights

    So much for the reservations and issues. That's not what this thread is about. Imagine that Turkey complies to all of our minimum standards and conditions regarding economy, democracy and human rights, would it then be a good idea to let the country join the Union?

    Arguments pro membership

    Turkey as an EU member would be a good buffer against fundamentalist threats coming from the ME. Moreover, it would exclude the possibility of the country ever becoming a fundi islamic nation.

    Apart from that, a muslim country in the EU could bring the EU and other muslim countries closer together which could have a positive effect on diplomacy and conflict handling. These are the main reasons why the Bush administration has been lobbying in favor of (swift) accession

    Arguments contra membership

    On the other hand you can ask yourself if the above is enough to justify Turkey's accession. We've just had a massive englargement of the Union to the east, confronting us with the fact that the current organisation of decission making isn't adapted to such a large Union. The Constitution could've solved that, but as you know it made a crash landing and is in the fridge for the time being. At this time further expansion would mean the downfall of the Union as a whole. That's why the chairman of the European Commission, Barosso, said that after the accession of Bulgaria and Romania in 2007 a further expansion is not possible before the political structure of the Union is modified.

    Moreover, I have a problem with prioritizing Turkey's membership procedure while stopping other country's procedures. Croatia, Macedonia, Bosnia and Montenegro for instance are closer to Brussels and would benefit a lot more from membership as it would be a push in the back to get their political and economical structures organised and to solve ethnic tensions in the region. It has only been somewhat like 10 years since these countries became independant after Yugoslavia collapsed and they're still in the middle of getting everything "on the road." Imo they deserve membership more than Turkey.

    Apart from that, you can't deny that Turkey doesn't really have cultural, historical or geographical links with Europe like the other members have. You can ask yourself where the real "borders" of Europe are. At a certain point the EU will have to draw the line and stop expanding. Imo beyond the Caucasus in the North East and the Balkan peninsula in the South East you're not in Europe anymore. If you ask me allowing Turkey to become member is a bit exagerated in that perspective.

    Finally there's the public opinion. During the past few years the EU citizens have lost (a part of) their faith in the Union due (in part) to the rapid expansion. The EU was originally created by six founding states in 1958, but has grown to its current size of 25 member states. There were five successive enlargements during this period, with the largest in 2004, when 10 new member states joined. A growing number of people have lost insight into what the EU actually is and who all the members actually are. Furthermore, a large part of the population is against Turkish membership. Forcing that down the citizen's throats would damage the EU a lot internally imo.

    In other words: I'm not radically opposed to Turkish membership since it has some benefits, but at this point I'm not at all in favor either. Maybe someone else here has an other opinion on the matter, so let's hear it!

    (Btw, sorry for the long ass post, but I wanted to provide some essential info and facts for those who don't live in Europe)
    22
    Yes, they should be made member asap!
    18.18%
    4
    Yes, but only when all issues have been solved.
    18.18%
    4
    No, Turkey can't become a EU member.
    54.55%
    12
    I don't know at this point.
    9.09%
    2
  • thesightless
    Someone will marry me. Hell Yeah!
    • Jun 2004
    • 13567

    #2
    Re: Turkish membership of the EU?

    shame we cant all call each other earthlings....
    your life is an occasion, rise to it.

    Join My Chant. new mix. april 09. dirty fuck house.
    download that. deep shit listed there

    my dick is its own superhero.

    Comment

    • KinKyJ
      Platinum Poser
      • Jun 2004
      • 13438

      #3
      Re: Turkish membership of the EU?

      ^^^ in an ideal world, you know...

      Sure would like to hear your opinion on the matter Sean. I wonder how Americans see this in relation to fundamentalism and muslim terrorism...

      Comment

      • thesightless
        Someone will marry me. Hell Yeah!
        • Jun 2004
        • 13567

        #4
        Re: Turkish membership of the EU?

        you really want it.

        ill keep it as simple as i can and you can ask in depth as to what you see.

        1. i want the USA to get a government not as agressive, but in ways, more aggressive in pushingpeace and eliminating ppl like the taleban, the ICU and the shit in africa....not looking for reason to fight, but taking those who give a reason.

        2. then i want to see north and central and south america get on the same page as the EU did. start here in NY and work south.

        3. then, even if we cant get these two continents together, i want to the the US, canada and mexico, combine in a way with the EU, to form one giant global organization dedicated to stability first, peace second, and force only when neccessary for getting rid of ppl like kim jong and others. (i.e. people looking to create rifts as opposed to finding a common ground.).

        4. asia, for the most part, after ww2, got its shit together, even with all the tiffs and the taiwan situation, they have rarely pushed each other towards violence. getting them on involved would be a great way to apply pressure to the toilet region west of india and east of europe.

        5. allow the middle east, if they are truly dedicated to following a stricter veriosn of life, to act in isolation. create a trade programme for fuel, and keep it based upon that, no more aid, no more humanitarian efforts. if they want to destroy thier people b/c some stupid asshat wrote a fictional book about a guy who wears a bath towel on his head, so be it. we no longer need to give money to those seeking to erode and kill our lifestyles and freedoms.

        6. i.e. an equal, worldwide goal of power sharing, devotion to peace, and elimination of problems. one common army like the UN has whereas troops from boston, london, berlin and tokyo operate under one flag. and for one flag. ill put a picture of earth from the space station on the flag.
        your life is an occasion, rise to it.

        Join My Chant. new mix. april 09. dirty fuck house.
        download that. deep shit listed there

        my dick is its own superhero.

        Comment

        • Yao
          DUDERZ get a life!!!
          • Jun 2004
          • 8167

          #5
          Re: Turkish membership of the EU?

          I'm frantically opposed to Turkey joining the Union, mainly based on their disrespect of human rights, not recognizing Cyprus (and not even trying to come to a solution). Looking from the union's side, I don't think expansion is a good thing at all at this moment, even Romania and Bulgaria joining it is something I don't like. This is simply because it's clear to see that the rest of the union (predominantly the 'old' part) is still coming to terms with the last batch that joined - we're having discussions on labour migration and whatnot over the last batch, and the new one is already marching in.

          For most people, the expansion is taking place way too fast - and I agree: an economic body such as the EU must stabilize itself after expansion in order to avoid internal conflicts. But it's almost like they're pushing the expansion down our throats, and while I do think that the balkan and Eastern European countries can be a great assett to the EU in both cultural and economic terms, this needs to be done with care.

          Regarding Turkey, there is another catch when it comes to the European fear of Islam: the problem is not in Turkey itself, but lies in the fact that when it would become a member state, extremist groups that have not had a chance under the current Turkish regime can easily cross borders into countries that aren't as strict on those groups (Holland for example), and deploy their activities there with possibly disastrous consequences. Extremists have far less freedom in Turkey than they do in most European countries, so the EU members themselves should get a much better checking system in place before they even think of letting Turkey in - it might become a favoured passage of many ill-willing groups into the EU itself...
          Blowkick visual & graphic design - No Civilization. Now With Broadband.

          There are but three true sports -- bullfighting, mountain climbing, and motor-racing. The rest are merely games. -Hemingway

          Comment

          • filthy
            Addiction started
            • Nov 2004
            • 352

            #6
            Re: Turkish membership of the EU?

            No for me.
            Come on, Scott, you're still young! Being a true loser takes years of ineptitude.

            Comment

            • Yao
              DUDERZ get a life!!!
              • Jun 2004
              • 8167

              #7
              Re: Turkish membership of the EU?

              U got a reason to go with that?
              Blowkick visual & graphic design - No Civilization. Now With Broadband.

              There are but three true sports -- bullfighting, mountain climbing, and motor-racing. The rest are merely games. -Hemingway

              Comment

              • Lorn
                Looking for a title!
                • Sep 2004
                • 5826

                #8
                Re: Turkish membership of the EU?

                60% against so far.

                Comment

                • Yao
                  DUDERZ get a life!!!
                  • Jun 2004
                  • 8167

                  #9
                  Re: Turkish membership of the EU?

                  lower than i had expected to be honest, but as far as i know the US is specifically in favour of it since it might according to them provide a buffer against the ME Muslim states. Not to mention the weakening effect it might have (temporarily though) on the European economy, which is of course in the US's advantage. Not trying to bash here, simple geopolitics
                  Blowkick visual & graphic design - No Civilization. Now With Broadband.

                  There are but three true sports -- bullfighting, mountain climbing, and motor-racing. The rest are merely games. -Hemingway

                  Comment

                  • rubyraks
                    DUDERZ get a life!!!
                    • Jun 2004
                    • 5341

                    #10
                    Re: Turkish membership of the EU?

                    You got that right, yao. It most certainly is in our favor to have Turkey in the EU, but I think there may be another reason you overlook...Iraq. With everything going on there, the Kurds will walk away with a lot more power than they'd had previously. Helping Turkey into the EU may appease Turkey's feeling about that and also may appease the Kurds in Turkey not to get any ideas.

                    But alas, I'm against. The EU has grown too much too fast and they still have a long ways to go before they've successfully integrated the last round of entries, both economically and politically. Let alone the security issues that would arise with Turkey in the EU.
                    "Work like you don't need the money.
                    Love like you've never been hurt.
                    Dance like nobody's watching.
                    Sing like nobody's listening.
                    Live like it's Heaven on Earth."

                    Comment

                    • Yao
                      DUDERZ get a life!!!
                      • Jun 2004
                      • 8167

                      #11
                      Re: Turkish membership of the EU?

                      Spot on with the last remark, and I think your suggestion on the Kurds might also be a good point Ben...
                      Blowkick visual & graphic design - No Civilization. Now With Broadband.

                      There are but three true sports -- bullfighting, mountain climbing, and motor-racing. The rest are merely games. -Hemingway

                      Comment

                      • KinKyJ
                        Platinum Poser
                        • Jun 2004
                        • 13438

                        #12
                        Re: Turkish membership of the EU?

                        The Kurds remark is indeed a good point, but I guess the shit with the PKK/violation of human rights is a reason to keep them out instead of giving them candy.

                        Why is "everyone" so anxious on hading out presents to Turkey in the first place? Serious question I'm asking myself and I guess the ME buffer might just be the answer to it.

                        Btw Yao, spot on about the geopolitics side of the story imo!

                        Comment

                        • LoUiS
                          Platinum Poster
                          • Jun 2004
                          • 1078

                          #13
                          Re: Turkish membership of the EU?

                          Definitly against!!!
                          Don't take life too Seriously!!!

                          Comment

                          • KinKyJ
                            Platinum Poser
                            • Jun 2004
                            • 13438

                            #14
                            Re: Turkish membership of the EU?

                            Lemme guess Louis, you're from the Greek side?

                            Comment

                            • LoUiS
                              Platinum Poster
                              • Jun 2004
                              • 1078

                              #15
                              Re: Turkish membership of the EU?

                              Originally posted by KinKyJ
                              Lemme guess Louis, you're from the Greek side?
                              Yeah!
                              Don't take life too Seriously!!!

                              Comment

                              Working...