So the IDF f@cked up again

[Miguel]

Re: So the IDF fucked up again

dave .. thats the mentallity thats keeping alive the conflict ....... + i think your coments are very insulting , and that you are as ignorant as those palestinians firing rockets your way
bottom line is you people only have 2 options 1) give them what they want , 2) kill them all .... neither of the 2 will happen ... so you better smart up a little bit and stop thinking that you have been victims for 2000 years and now is your time for payback

PS. you should be carefull what you write here .. music is the priority in this forum

[rubyraks]

Re: So the IDF fucked up again

I'm disappointed that this discussion has denigrated to this so quickly.

So let me just try and say a few things in dave's defense here since everyone is ganging up on him.

Does anyone else find anything wrong that all the blame on the Lebanon conflict has been dumped on the Israelis?

Where is the blame to the Lebanese government for allowing Hamas to settle in comfortably on their border with Israel? I don't hear anyone criticizing them.

Where is the blame to the UN, who were brought in specifically to guard that border and prevent hamas from reestablishing bases there after Israel left Lebanon, for allowing Hamas to settle in comfortably again on their border with Israel? I don't hear anyone criticizing them.

Where is the blame to the Palestinians, Hamas and Hezbollah for constantly using children, women, schools and private homes as shields and suicide bombers? I don't hear anyone criticizing them.

And lastly, where is the sense of fair criticism between the Israelis targeted bombings in Lebanon (albeit with some mistakes) as opposed to the random shelling of Hamas? At least the Israelis were aiming for military targets as opposed to civilians like hamas did.

The extent of the world's criticism in Israel's favor has been to withdraw funding from Hamas because they refuse to recognize Israel, though many have begun reconsidering that.

Now I'm not saying that the Israelis have done no wrong. They've done plenty and their anger and frustration tends to result in their overreacting at times, but until you've lived under constant shelling with weekly suicide bombers (who are men, women and children nowadays ) all the while surrounded by your enemies who are quite vocal about wanting to destroy your country and your people, I believe you should withhold your one-sided criticism.

Just because it's easier for the world to criticize the Israelis, whether it's due to fear of your own muslim populations (I'm looking at you Europe) or because you'd have a better chance to make progress with a democratic Israeli government as opposed to the monarchies and dictators of most of the other middle eastern countries, doesn't make it right.

And I'm not even getting into the financial reasons many countries may have to side with the arabic countries as opposed to Israel...I'm thinking of France among many others...

<rant over>

Why can't we all just get along?...I wish it were that simple.

[Miguel]

Re: So the IDF fucked up again

we all want peace .. what neither side wants is to compromise

watch paradise now .. nice movie nominated for foreign language oscar .. ( is the only oscar i pay attention to )

[Yao]

Re: So the IDF fucked up again

I kinda go with Ruby and Dave here, and for the record: Dave has never denied the shit Israel has pulled, but i'd get fed up in his position too. Especially here in Europe, everyone seems to be pro-palestinian, and there's actually a trend visible in that.

Ruby makes some very valid points with which I can only totally agree, and I'm getting tired of people that use innocent people as a human shield and kill at random for their cause playing the victim card.

[thesightless]

Re: So the IDF fucked up again

hey, if you have a moderate amount of intelligence and pay attention, there is minimal blame to isreal, you can blame them for Over-reacting at times, but you cant blame them for reacting. thier people are killed and kidnapped in the name of gaza, and they go after the perps.

fuck hezzboallah and hamas, they are the only two organziations on the plaent to openly say they will use terrorism to attain thier goals, and i wonder why no one finds fault with it...and fuck iran too, today they held yet another anit isreali rally where a few thousand people showed up and burned effigies, and encouraged more suicide bombings.

[thesightless]

Re: So the IDF fucked up again

and the only time the two organizations stop open fighting is when they are about to be eradicated. so they stop, call a truce to re-arm, wait awhile, then start again. the world made a huge mistake calling for the truce, they should have let isreal fight these groups until they were gone. and SHAME on egypt, a country who, in recent times, takes a bit of high ground politically and stays out of it, but when you are hosting the leadership of these groups, you share blame.

[thesightless]

Re: So the IDF fucked up again

oh PS. bulululu has no concept of who attacks and who reacts in regards to isreal. i personally think he beleives the arabs are the true historical people from that land.

[Yao]

Re: So the IDF fucked up again

Even overreacting...It has time and time again been proven that the moment Israel relaxes a bit they get jumped. The only way to keep surrounding militias/organizations/countries off their backs is to show that you.dont.fuck.with.Israel. Period.

This will autmatically mean heavy responses to shit like that shelling from Lebanon...

[thesightless]

Re: So the IDF fucked up again

bululu, if me and a few thousand of my armed bretheren were sitting in milan, launching rockets at your shit hole haven for criminals and pedophiles, and italy was sitting back enjoying the show, what in the world would you want the swiss gov't to do>? mind you, im a civilian firing them from the center of a city

[Miguel]

Re: So the IDF fucked up again

i still think your aproach to the conflict wont fix anything

and to tell you the truth i found dave remarks insulting

[rubyraks]

Re: So the IDF fucked up again

i still think your aproach to the conflict wont fix anything

and to tell you the truth i found dave remarks insulting

I could see the frustration in what he's saying, but, just out of curiousity, which part of his response was insulting to you? I see where he's insulted bululu for good cause...to pick to argue with only half the point is taking him out of context and unfair.

[thesightless]

Re: So the IDF fucked up again

miguel, how old are you. just wondering.

[Bululu]

Re: So the IDF fucked up again

Will see then if no one won't fuck with Isreal very soon.

[rubyraks]

Re: So the IDF fucked up again

Will see then if no one won't fuck with Isreal very soon.

Isn't your country supposed to be neutral? and yet you seem to be filled with more wrath than anyone here...interesting.

[KinKyJ]

Re: So the IDF fucked up again

And then you would be showing your complete and utter stupidity wouldnt you Jan.

Does the wishey washey European liberal need to be shown the differences or can you figure them out by yourself?

whatever dude, biiiiiig whatever

If you're starting to say stuff like "10, 20, 50 palestinians dead, who cares?" you're on the same rock bottom level as the scum on the other side of the fence. At least your prime minister had the decency to admit it was a fuck up.

But what do I know? I don't cheer when a casualty is added to the list on either side, so I gotta be... what was it again? Ow yeah "complete and utter stupid."