Can the concept of "democracy" survive in the Middle Eastern/Arab regions?

[Kamal]

I was visiting a relative a few weeks ago and while watching the news, another story of a bombing in Iraq came up. That is when the debate of what could be done in Iraq ensued.

A very interesting point that came up during our conversation is the fact that the Middle Eastern countries, since time immemorial, have been under the rule of an autocratic leader/military type regime. I mean it is ironically obvoius across the entire region that a dictatorial regiment has been keeping/kept the things under control (more-or-less).

Going there to liberalize a country (that has been "under control" by a single dictator and potentially similar individuals/organizations over time) on the pretext of providing a sense of democracy seems as crazy as enstating Communism in the US of A.

Which is potentially why we see/have seen groups like Hezbollah/Hamas/Al Qaeda/Taliban and whatever you have, come in and out of power.

If tyranny/absolute control is the way to rule, it seems downright impossible that we will see a sense of stability in this region.

[rubyraks]

Re: Can the concept of "democracy" survive in the Middle Eastern/Arab regions?

It's a point that I had taken up many a times early on in the war. One thing that the Americans neoconservatives never took into consideration was the effect such a political change would have on the population. When a population only knows dictatorships and tyranny, it takes quite a while for them to realize the benefits of something else. This isn't something that happens overnight.

To have thought that in a few years we would be able to walk in and set up a completely different political landscape and expect the people to be able to comfortably go along (simply because we had determined it was better for them) is unrealistic, as history has now shown. It takes time to build that kind of support and even longer for people to adapt to it and better yet, it's just that much harder to try doing that under the barrel of a gun or under foreign occupation.

[RiseandShine]

Re: Can the concept of "democracy" survive in the Middle Eastern/Arab regions?

I agree with you - I have met so many people that say: iraqi want to be free, they want to have democracy, every man is entitled to freedom, freedom of speech...
I think the two latter are right but the whole things need to come alltogether and bears a certain cost: first of all, you need to have a population that understands what it means and actually that do want it, then you also need to build the institutions to support that kind of regime - which is not just by organizing elections...
Your point about that region of the world is good, I would add the fact that it also bears ultra conservative religious caracteristics that have not evolved yet enough to let that kind of concept be understood by the masses

"Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others that have been tried."

~ Winston Churchill

[thesightless]

Re: Can the concept of "democracy" survive in the Middle Eastern/Arab regions?

one word answer.

no

reason:: the people , for the most part, in the region are ass backwards.

[Lorn]

Re: Can the concept of "democracy" survive in the Middle Eastern/Arab regions?

Everyone wants democracy...you all should know that.

[rubyraks]

Re: Can the concept of "democracy" survive in the Middle Eastern/Arab regions?

We all know that, it's just that they don't know it...

[Kamal]

Re: Can the concept of "democracy" survive in the Middle Eastern/Arab regions?

more importantly, don't understand it..... its the Jungle's rule out there... Might is Right

[thesightless]

Re: Can the concept of "democracy" survive in the Middle Eastern/Arab regions?

im just wondering,

do the people of the middle east as a whole, factoring in that there are indeed exceptions, realize that the rest of the world look at them like ''what the fuck is wrong with these people?"

i mean, do they enjoy not having a say and having tough laws imposed on them to the point where in one certain country, the legislature is still trying to pass a law whereas you wear a pin to show your religion?> do they like not being able to obtain jobs in saudi arabia b/.c of sharaic schooling?> why arent the people in iraq fed up with the al sadr milita killing everyone? i mean, you see ppl in the streets crying, but yet, no one speaks out in favor of hunting down moqtada. they cheer bin laden and his boys.....

insert sarcasm
at this point, i want some pro-western terror attacks. lets get some americans and europeans in there with big bombs and lets attack mecca, some shrines, maybe a hamas building or three, some important oil buildings. and we can tape ourselves cheering for mecca being bombed right on the corner of church and vescey streets. (ground zero).

[rubyraks]

Re: Can the concept of "democracy" survive in the Middle Eastern/Arab regions?

^you got to understand that most of them just don't really know any of way of living. When all your life has been under tyrannical rule, your vision is only able to go so far.

Think something similar to the Stockholm syndrome...

[RiseandShine]

Re: Can the concept of "democracy" survive in the Middle Eastern/Arab regions?

more importantly, don't understand it..... its the Jungle's rule out there... Might is Right

economically, it's called the bazar type of economy: cheat if you can, lie if it brings you something, just look for short term (I'm pulling it a little) but anyways, this model has proven to be non-productive.

[thesightless]

Re: Can the concept of "democracy" survive in the Middle Eastern/Arab regions?

even the turkish people are like this and thier country isnt that bad. which btw, wait a week until the pope goes to turkey. someone does something to him, and you will see the single largest rise in racial crimes worldwide.

[RiseandShine]

Re: Can the concept of "democracy" survive in the Middle Eastern/Arab regions?

Things take time, culture don't change like that. remember that this part of the world was also the crade of the persian empire that ruled the world while europe was fucking goats and the US did not exists.
democracy took almost 200 years not become a stable political system - don't ask these people to put it up in 3 years

[Lorn]

Re: Can the concept of "democracy" survive in the Middle Eastern/Arab regions?

^Yup. And who knows. In another 300 years maybe something better will come along.

[toasty]

Re: Can the concept of "democracy" survive in the Middle Eastern/Arab regions?

[talking out of ass]
I don't think it is that much of a stretch for a country in the mid-east to set up a democratic system of government, to the extent that they would have leaders that are elected by popular vote. The problem is that there are so many things that come with the American version of democracy that we're trying to inject at the same time -- that's where the resistance really is, I think.

I suspect the Iraqis are ready for the idea of voting to control their own fate. Are they ready for separation of church and state, though? Are they ready for freedom of speech? Are they ready for a more westernized culture? I think Bush's vision is to turn Iraq into a mid-eastern version of the US. I think that's the real stumbling block.

[/talking out of ass]

[thesightless]

Re: Can the concept of "democracy" survive in the Middle Eastern/Arab regions?

i think gw learned his lesson when hamas was elected democratically.