Kerry vs Gulliani

[Balanc3]

I dont know about the rest of you, but im watchin Gulliani rip on John Kerry at the RNC. Leavin Bush-e out of this one, who would make a better President. :What: :What: :What:

[Jenks]

i wanted Bush to dump Cheney and take Gulliani on this ticket.

then have Gulliani run in 08 with Condolezza rice as his running mate...

i had it all planned out for em...lol

[neur0t0xin64]

Gulliani is the fucking man!!! And his speech was profound. Can everybody see the contrast between these two parties, DNC vs. RNC, and kerry vs. bush. To me there is just sooo much more optimism, patriotism and passion within the republican party. Am I the only person that feels that?

[delirious]

This is what some of the 9/11 families think of Rudy:

Outraged relatives of World Trade Centre victims heckled former Mayor Rudolph Giuliani as their hopes that he would be grilled by the September 11 commission faded in the face of gentle questioning and effusive praise from panel members.

"My son was murdered because of your incompetence!" shouted Sally Regenhard, whose fire-fighter son died in the trade centre.

Giuliani finished his testimony and abruptly left the auditorium minutes later, upsetting family members who said they received few answers. Monica Gabrielle, who lost her husband, Richard, called it a "lost opportunity".

"This was not a time for Rudy Giuliani to talk about all the great things he did on 9/11," she said. "He can save that for his talking tours. He should have told us what went wrong and what we should do now."

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_1529668,00.html

[Jibgolly]

"My son was murdered because of your incompetence!" shouted Sally Regenhard, whose fire-fighter son died in the trade centre.

how is guiliani responsible for this?

[superdave]

Re:: Kerry vs Gulliani

Giuliani showed great leadership ability by leading NY through the 9/11 crisis. And the media constantly remarks about how he cleaned up NYC crime and made it better city. Any NYers please respond if you do or don't agree.

But, what I most loved about his speech at the RNC was that he didn't hold back attacking Kerry. He brought in great personal stories into his speech that made it engaging instead of the usual prepared yawn speeches that others go on about.

I admire too that not that he an extramarital affair, but didn't run from or try to hide it. He showed he was a human that mistakes like the rest of us.

Hopefully, he's somehow involved in Bush's next term, if re-elected, because he's too talented a leader to waste.

[neoee]

Re:: Kerry vs Gulliani

Sorry, in this poll I gotta vote Kerry.

In all honesty Gulliani probably would make a better president than would Kerry but only because he is a better speaker and instills confidence with his speeches/presence. I've always thought this was the most important quality a figurehead should posess. BUT...

look into the closing of Twilo, or maybe some of you NY'ers can fill the others in. Gulliani used some pretty dirty/unfair tactics to have it shut down, and someone like this I could never vote into office. Some will believe our civil liberties have been taken or violated with the Patriot Act. If he was in office I'm certian things would be much, much worse.

[neur0t0xin64]

Re:: Kerry vs Gulliani

Sorry, in this poll I gotta vote Kerry.

look into the closing of Twilo, or maybe some of you NY'ers can fill the others in. Gulliani used some pretty dirty/unfair tactics to have it shut down, and someone like this I could never vote into office. Some will believe our civil liberties have been taken or violated with the Patriot Act. If he was in office I'm certian things would be much, much worse.

WOOOOW WOOOW, hold on a sec here NEOEE, I lived in NY while Twilo was still open, and have been there many many times. Let me set the record straight about twilo and why it was shut down, because I was there that very night. The truth is that 5 crack head ravers overdosed on GHB and died in the club. A staff member (a bouncer) was instructed by management to 'hide' the bodies in a utility closet until the club cleared careful not to draw media attention. This of course was uncovered when somebody opened the closet and discovered the bodies, sending the entire club into a frenzy and putting the final nail in the coffin for Twilo.

http://www.4clubbers.net/features/newyorkcity.htm

So this is an extremely wreckless and wild assertation to say that it was actually Gulliani who used some pretty dirty/unfair tactics to have it shut down????? Your a wild man Neoee! Oh yeah question for you here, partner, can you tell me how the F*&K Gulliani has anything to do with the Patriot Act???? You know seeing as how your first reason for voting Kerry over Gulliani was a conscious lie, and your second reason has absolutely nothing to do with a former mayor, who btw does not set, implement, or even vote on that policy. Pretty irresponsible there Neoee. Those are some really wild pitches.

[HoneyBearKelly]

Re:: Kerry vs Gulliani

Former New York mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani made a number of specific attacks based on statements allegedly made by Democratic presidential nominee John F. Kerry in his speech to the Republican National Convention Monday night. But Giuliani's description of those comments often lacked context.

For example, Giuliani said: "In October of 2003, he told an Arab American institute in Detroit that a security barrier separating Israel from the Palestinian territories was a barrier to peace. Okay. Then a few months later, he took exactly the opposite position."

The context: When Kerry made his statement about a "barrier to peace," he was referring to, as he put it, the "Israeli government's decision to build the barrier off of the Green Line [the de facto boundary between Israel and the West Bank] -- cutting deep into Palestinian areas."

Kerry's stance was similar to the position taken by President Bush a few months earlier, in July 2003, when he said in the Rose Garden: "I think the wall is a problem, and I discussed this with [Israeli Prime Minister] Ariel Sharon. It is very difficult to develop confidence between the Palestinians and Israel with a wall snaking through the West Bank."

The Bush administration has spent months negotiating with the Israelis the precise route of the fence. Both Kerry and Bush opposed involvement of the International Court of Justice in the matter.

Giuliani: "I quote John Kerry: 'I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it.' "

The context: The administration's request for the funding was controversial, even among Republicans, and various attempts were made to split off $67 billion for the troops from the $20 billion for reconstruction, or to turn the $20 billion grant into a loan, or to fund some of the spending by raising taxes on incomes greater than $312,000. Kerry voted for a different version of the bill, just as Bush had vowed to veto a version that originally passed in the Senate that would have converted half of the Iraq rebuilding plan into a loan.

Giuliani: "Just a few months ago, John Kerry kind of leaked out that claim that certain foreign leaders who opposed our removal of Saddam Hussein prefer him."

The context: The reporter who provided a pool report on Kerry's comments at a fundraiser in March later said she had mistranscribed the comments, and Kerry actually did not use the word "foreign." He also did not refer to Saddam Hussein. Speaking to supporters who noted the opposition to Bush overseas, Kerry said: "I've been hearing it, I'll tell you. The news, the coverage in other countries, the news in other places. I've met more leaders who can't go out and say it all publicly, but boy they look at you and say, you gotta win this, you gotta beat this guy, we need a new policy, things like that."

From the full conversation, it appears clear Kerry is speaking about dislike of Bush and his policies by leaders overseas, but not necessarily the invasion of Iraq.

Giuliani: "He even, at one point, declared himself an antiwar candidate, and now he says he's a pro-war candidate."

The context: Giuliani's statement appears derived from an appearance by Kerry in January in which he was asked on MSNBC's "Hardball" if he was one of the candidates "unhappy with the war has been fought, the way it's been fought . . . are you one of the antiwar candidates?" He answered: "I am. Yes. In the sense that I don't believe the president took to us war as he should have, yes. Absolutely. Do I think this president violated his promises to America? Yes, I do, Chris. Was there a way to hold Saddam Hussein accountable? You bet there was and we should have done it right."

Chris Mathews, host of "Hardball," has protested to the Bush campaign the use of the statement that Kerry called himself an antiwar candidate, saying the remarks were taken out of context.

.

He should have had his speechwriters do a little fact checking.

[delirious]

Re:: Kerry vs Gulliani

He should have had his speechwriters do a little fact checking.

Just laughing at how the Republicans spend all their time attacking Kerry instead of showing their work over the last 4 years and letting the voters decide whether they're worthy of re-election.

I hope they keep the attacks coming - good for the dems

[neoee]

Re:: Kerry vs Gulliani

WOOOOW WOOOW, hold on a sec here NEOEE, I lived in NY while Twilo was still open, and have been there many many times. Let me set the record straight about twilo and why it was shut down, because I was there that very night. The truth is that 5 crack head ravers overdosed on GHB and died in the club. A staff member (a bouncer) was instructed by management to 'hide' the bodies in a utility closet until the club cleared careful not to draw media attention. This of course was uncovered when somebody opened the closet and discovered the bodies, sending the entire club into a frenzy and putting the final nail in the coffin for Twilo.

http://www.4clubbers.net/features/newyorkcity.htm

So this is an extremely wreckless and wild assertation to say that it was actually Gulliani who used some pretty dirty/unfair tactics to have it shut down????? Your a wild man Neoee! Oh yeah question for you here, partner, can you tell me how the F*&K Gulliani has anything to do with the Patriot Act???? You know seeing as how your first reason for voting Kerry over Gulliani was a conscious lie, and your second reason has absolutely nothing to do with a former mayor, who btw does not set, implement, or even vote on that policy. Pretty irresponsible there Neoee. Those are some really wild pitches.

1st off let me simply address anything you may have read into my statement regarding the Patriotic Act and Gulliani. I NEVER said Gulliani had anything to do with it. I merely stated that many have felt that our civil liberties were sacrificed for the Patriot Act and that had Gulliani been president, based on the methods he used to have Twilo shutdown, it could be even worse.

Now to address the closing of Twilo. What may have spawned the whole series of events may have been the incident at the club where the 2 kids died and what not, but the fact remains that Gulliani introduced a new policy which forced anyone seeking a Caberret(sp?) license to seek approval FROM THE MAYOR (convienent huh?). Basically the policy goes into effect and since Twilo's license actually listed the old name (sound factory?) the club was shut down. Attempts to get another license were of course denied by your man.

The two major legal points that led to the shutdown were (apparently):

i) Twilo had put DJ booths in the bathrooms without getting them approved by the fire
department, and
ii) Apparently their cabaret license was under the name Sound Factory (it's old name) rather than Twilo.

http://www.groovanauts.com/board/articles.php?article_id=14

Citing a need for further investigation, the city failed to renew the club's cabaret license, which expired in late September. Without such a license, no dancing is allowed. Court documents indicate that, though the club submitted proper renewal forms on time, the city effectively stalled in dealing with the paperwork. On September 27 Twilo filed an Article 78 petition, asking the judge to expedite the city Consumer Affairs Department's processing of cabaret license paperwork. The club's lawyer, Peter Sullivan, says, "We have every right to operate a cabaret. The city improperly failed to renew the license. We did everything we were supposed to do."

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0043/romano.php

So now who's been "extremely wreckless "?

[neur0t0xin64]

neoee thank you for further clarifying the demise of Twilo. much respected. however, you need to be held accountable for your flagrant theories. this thread is about kerry vs. gulliani, not twilo. you admit that what you feel is the greatest virtue of a leader, Gulliani has an abundance of. although again its wreckless for you to allow this virtue to dissolve or be disregarded, due to him helping to shut down an entertainment venue that had a looong history of drug abuse, and now is held responsible for the death of young clubbers. (granite there were other issues, however, the nail in the coffin were these deaths) just like the attorney in your article said, they did everything the club could do, the city did not renew their license. perhaps its because young people are dying in the club, hmmmmmmmm. its no mystery that that was the last night the club was open....ever. so yes, i do feel that your comments were irresponsible to admit Gulliani has the greatest quality, in YOUR opinion, as a leader, but then to assume things would be 'much worse' with him as president because he shut down a club where people are dying, and because you feel hes somehow(you still havent explained how) responsible or even partially responsible for the patriot act????? now go back in your room until I say you can come out.

[neoee]

neoee thank you for further clarifying the demise of Twilo. much respected. however, you need to be held accountable for your flagrant theories. this thread is about kerry vs. gulliani, not twilo. you admit that what you feel is the greatest virtue of a leader, Gulliani has an abundance of. although again its wreckless for you to allow this virtue to dissolve or be disregarded, due to him helping to shut down an entertainment venue that had a looong history of drug abuse, and now is held responsible for the death of young clubbers. (granite there were other issues, however, the nail in the coffin were these deaths) just like the attorney in your article said, they did everything the club could do, the city did not renew their license. perhaps its because young people are dying in the club, hmmmmmmmm. its no mystery that that was the last night the club was open....ever. so yes, i do feel that your comments were irresponsible to admit Gulliani has the greatest quality, in YOUR opinion, as a leader, but then to assume things would be 'much worse' with him as president because he shut down a club where people are dying, and because you feel hes somehow(you still havent explained how) responsible or even partially responsible for the patriot act????? now go back in your room until I say you can come out.

Ok fair enough. So Gulliani shuts down a club where there have been deaths from drug use. How about some personal responsibility? Isn't that one of the republicians big things?

The night club I frequent on the weekends had an incident earlier this year where 3 patrons were ejected due to fighting or agressive behavior. This incident resulted in 2 deaths that night (1 guy with a knife against 5 guys who were going to gang up on him). Was the club somehow responsible for this? In Twilo's case lets for a minute assume they made 100% sure that no drugs got into the club. Is it not possible for people to take the drugs prior to going in? If you were throwing a party at your house and people had taken drugs prior to getting there, and they die, is this your fault? I don't think so. We are talking about adults here. Do you as an adult need the club to babysit you when you are there?

There may have been things that Twilo did wrong, I don't know since I never had a chance to go. IF you as a patron ask for help since you feel your life is threatened either by physical violence or medically and the club does not take action, in that case I would agree that, YES, the club is liable. However Gulliani didn't close the club by addressing those issues, instead he invented his own way to shut it down since he was unsuccessful otherwise. This was an abuse of power. Which brings me to the reason I stated that I would choose Kerry over Gulliani if it was them running.

While Gulliani IS an excellent speaker, and again, I think this is, for me one of the most important factors, it takes a back seat to someone who fails to uphold what this country is all about... liberty and justice for ALL.

[neur0t0xin64]

No doubt a good point. Justified response and I agree with taking responsibility. I dont think clubs should be 100% responsible either. Im right there with you on that one.


neoee whats going on with these clubs your going to bro, geeezus people getting knived to death.

[neoee]

neoee whats going on with these clubs your going to bro, geeezus people getting knived to death.

Its actually a really cozy afterhours club which is very good to me and my guests. I even get a chance to play there about once a month. We always show up after 2 but before that (on Saturdays) they run a nite which caters to a primarily Russian crowd. While some of the guys are cools there's too much testorone there. By 2:30 most of the crowd changes over and it mellows out and everything is good into the morning hours. It helps taking alcohol out of the equation. :wink: